Gricel Mendez chats about migrating to Australia from Argentina, studying psychology and educational leadership. She also discusses founding an organisation that teaches Positive Behaviour Supports and takes us on a step-by-step journey on how to navigate a public tantrum with finesse. GUEST: Gricel Mendez - https://set2learn.com.au/ SOCIAL MEDIA: Follow The Benevolent Society on Instagram Follow Carer Gateway on Facebook Follow The Benevolent Society on Facebook CREDITS: Host – Patty Kikos Producers – Patty Kikos and John Hresc Sound Engineer – John Hresc GET IN TOUCH: Carer Gateway is proud to offer emotional and practical services and support for carers with the aim of making your life easier. You can call us on 1800 422 737 to find out more about peer support groups, counselling, coaching, online skills courses, tailored support packages, emergency respite, other government supports, as well as tips and information, or visit our online home at www.carergateway.gov.au Got some questions or thoughts for the team? Email us at cgconnections@benevolent.org.au and put ‘Carer Conversations Podcast’ in the subject line. ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS: The Benevolent Society acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.
Gricel Mendez chats about migrating to Australia from Argentina, studying psychology and educational leadership. She also discusses founding an organisation that teaches Positive Behaviour Supports and takes us on a step-by-step journey on how to navigate a public tantrum with finesse.
GUEST:
Gricel Mendez - https://set2learn.com.au/
SOCIAL MEDIA:
Follow The Benevolent Society on Instagram
Follow Carer Gateway on Facebook
Follow The Benevolent Society on Facebook
CREDITS:
Host – Patty Kikos
Producers – Patty Kikos and John Hresc
Sound Engineer – John Hresc
GET IN TOUCH:
Carer Gateway is proud to offer emotional and practical services and support for carers with the aim of making your life easier.
You can call us on 1800 422 737 to find out more about peer support groups, counselling, coaching, online skills courses, tailored support packages, emergency respite, other government supports, as well as tips and information, or visit our online home at www.carergateway.gov.au
Got some questions or thoughts for the team? Email us at cgconnections@benevolent.org.au and put ‘Carer Conversations Podcast’ in the subject line.
ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS:
The Benevolent Society acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.
Patty
So how do you navigate the tantrum? Is this the million-dollar question?
Gricel
It *is* the $1 billion question. You know, the first thing that we need to try to do as much as possible, and I know this is hard, is not to get embarrassed when things happen when those tantrums happen, so try to ignore it and make sure, obviously always ensuring that your child, the person you're caring for is safe. But the first thing we need to do, is ignore it.
Patty
So this highlights to me why it's so important for carers to have support groups, because it's easy for us to say, just ignore it. But unless you can talk about the practice of how to do that in a supportive environment, how are you really going to do it? Because the carer needs to be robust enough in their energy circuits in their own self worth and in their confidence and in their self identity to be able to say “Hey, I know you're all having a problem with this, but I'm OK. And I'm gonna navigate it in a way that's gonna be best for my child”. Have you ever had to do this? {Yes. She laughs}.
Gricel
YES! A lot of times. Haha, I do.
---
Billy:
From the Benevolent Society, we welcome you to the Carer Gateway podcast, with your host Patty Kikos.
Carer Gateway is the Australian Government’s national carer hub, and provides reliable services, support and advice specifically for carers.
This is where we share interviews with guests that have specialized knowledge that will help support carers look after their emotional, mental and physical well-being.
We are recording on Aboriginal country, on lands which were never ceded. We acknowledge the traditional custodians and cultural knowledge holders of these lands and waters. We pay our respects to Aboriginal elders, past, present and emerging.
Always was, always will be.
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Patty
Welcome to our fabulous carers and listeners. I hope you’ve been well, and I’m delighted that we are connecting again here on Carer Conversations.
Now I have a question for you.
Have you ever been in the vicinity near a child or young person that appeared to be having a tantrum? Have you found yourself thinking or mumbling things like “gosh kids are so spoilt these days.” Or “where are the parents? Why don’t they discipline their child?”
But here’s the kicker, have you ever been the parent or carer of said child who not only had to navigate the tantrum, but also the judgement of other people watching them, not to mention your own stress around the situation as well?
Because that’s who you’re about to meet! Gricel Mendezis passionate about the disability sector, positive thinking and personal growth. As the mother of a child with a developmental disability, Gricel has chosen to combine her professional experience in the disability and mental health sectors, with personal interests to provide a positive and empowering environment for people with disabilities.
She’s also a Mental Health First Aid Instructor and after 16 years at TAFE, Gricel left in 2016 to set up her own company; SET2LEARN.
And this is what makes her company so unique. SET2LEARN is run and operated by experienced professionals who also have children with disabilities. Their aim is to improve the quality of service and therefore improve the quality of life of people with disabilities.
At SET2LEARN, critical and creative thinking is encouraged when it comes to finding solutions for challenges presented by clients and society. They offer project-based learning to provide opportunities for authentic learning, and their goal is to improve the quality of life for people with a disability, a mental illness and of course, the aged and the frail.
Gricel, hello!!
Gricel
Hello Patty, and thanks for having me here today.
Patty
It's wonderful to have you. Tell us a bit about yourself. Where did you grow up first of all?
Gricel
Well, I was born in Uruguay, migrated to Argentina when I was 3 years old, and then came to Australia when I was 14.
Patty
Ooh my goodness. Do you have a Uruguayan accent or an Argentinian accent?
Gricel
I have a very strong Argentinian accent from Buenos Aires which is the capital city.
Patty
And probably quite distinct.
Gricel
Yes.
Patty
So, I wonder, do you consider yourself to be Argentinian, Australian or even Argentinian Australian.
Gricel
Well, I lived most of my life in in Australia, so I consider myself Australian. But, I have a little bit of Uruguay too in my heart. Uruguay is a very small country of three million people. My dad moved there a few years ago and had to go back to visit him and fell in love with Uruguay all over again.
Patty
Wow, did you find that Buenos Aires was too overwhelming, too big, too noisy?
Gricel
Beunos Aires was actually quite noisy and overwhelming. So, I tended to relate more to Uruguay.
Patty
Wow interesting. Let's go back to when you moved to Australia, when you were about 14. Did you speak any English?
Gricel
No, I had actually studied French when I was in Argentina, and I had to actually repeat a year when I came to Australia. And after three years of being in Australia, I actually did my HSC with very limited English and managed to get into uni. And I didn't do too badly.
Patty
No, not at all. Cause not only did you manage to study at university, but you also got a Masters degree. Which is very impressive.
Gricel
I have a Bachelor of Arts with a major in Psychology from the University of Sydney. And I completed a postgraduate diploma in psychology from the University of New England. I worked in the Community sector. I worked as a counsellor and then after that I actually switched to Education and became a TAFE teacher and then a Head Teacher. I completed a master's degree in educational leadership at the University of Wollongong. And unfortunately, I had to turn down an opportunity for a PhD because I had a young daughter with a disability that needed to prioritise.
Patty
Of course. Well, actually, let's talk about that. Tell us about your three beautiful daughters.
Gricel
OK, so my eldest is 28 and I'm about to become my grandma. So, I'm very excited!
Patty
Congratulations, you're going to be an abuela.
Gricel
Yes, I am! And my second one is 20 and she's studying Sports Science at Uni, and my youngest one is 18. And she's the one that has a disability. She's got a syndrome called 18 Q minus, which means that she's missing a little bit of the 18th chromosome. She's got an intellectual disability and autism.
Patty
Take me back to when Kiara was born. Where were you working and how did her diagnosis change your life? Cause I imagine it would have been a really big impact.
Gricel
Yeah, it was. So, I was teaching at TAFE back then. Kiara was born with a lot of health issues. I still managed to work at TAFE so. And I went back after six weeks to do casual work after she was born.
Patty
Wow. The resilience of mama, can we talk about the fact that when you have your third, you're so much more relaxed?
Gricel (laughs)
Yeah, it's a good thing that she wasn’t number one. Actually, she was a perfect baby, you know? She slept all night and ate well. So, even though she had her challenges, she was a really good baby.
Patty
Tell me something, Gricel. Did you know about her diagnosis while you were pregnant? Or did you find out about it when she was born?
Gricel
At 20 weeks, I was told that she probably had Down Syndrome, so they automatically assumed that I wanted to have an abortion, actually.
Patty
Without consulting you, or even discussing it with you?
Gricel
Without consulting, they booked me in for an abortion. And I had already worked in the disability sector by then, and I spoke to my husband, and it is a big decision to have a child with a disability. But, you know, we talked about it and decided not to go ahead. And then we had an ammonia test. And the test came back normal because the deletion wasn't picked up at that point.
Patty
Interesting. Did you also have a sense that something might not be quite right though?
Gricel
Yes, yes, I did. Being my third pregnancy, I felt that she wasn't moving as much so. You know, we always called her our miracle baby because the decision was basically taken away from us and, you know, she was born with a lot of issues, like heart problems. And she had unusual features. So, we were referred to a genetic counsellor and worked out that she had a syndrome.
It's hard when you find out that you have a daughter with a disability or a child with a disability, you know, you go through your grieving stage, you think that it's not going to achieve the same things that your other children are going to achieve. And you know, it it was hard at the beginning. It was very hard.
Patty
I can only imagine.
Gricel
But we also realised that you know, it was an opportunity to be better parents and to have a child with special needs really teaches you that. I think we were good parents to our first two, but we were even better parents to the third one.
Patty
Well, let's unpack that a little bit. How did you actually adjust your expectations?
Gricel
Yeah, so we were very proud pushy parents to our first two, you know? They had to play musical instruments and sing and join athletics. And my daughter, one of them won medals for athletics but we learned to appreciate the little things in life, so you know Kiara's first words. Because we didn't even know if she was gonna talk. Or whether she was gonna walk. So, her first words were such a joy to us as was the fact that she started walking. So, we learned to really appreciate the little things in life.
Patty
Yeah, I bet you celebrated those first words and those first steps more than when you celebrated those gold medals.
Gricel
Definitely we did, yes.
Patty
Yeah. So, Gricel, you were a head teacher at TAFE by this stage. What inspired you to leave and then set up your own company? Was this because you wanted to make a difference and have more freedom?
Gricel
Yes definitely, wanted to make a difference, especially for people with disabilities I found TAFE was very structured and I wanted to have more freedom to do the things I wanted to do and teach the things I wanted to teach. So you know, as a head teacher you do a lot of the admin.
So for me, it was more about the freedom to create the courses which I thought were relevant. Especially to carers and parents of people with disabilities. Accredited training is more about assessments and a competency-based training instead of the lifelong learning that I think is so important for people to have.
Patty
OK, so when you say I wanted to do things my way, does that include also employing people that care for people with disabilities?
Gricel
Yes. So, most of the people that work for us actually have either a relative that has a disability or they are carers themselves. So, they have a passion for what they do and that makes such a difference when you're running a class doesn’t it.
Patty
Absolutely. Because having that lived experience is everything. So is this. When you founded Set2Learn
Gricel
And yes, we started Set2Learn in my living room and for the first two years we actually put a lot of effort into becoming an RTO. So, a registered training organisation. And then we started to grow and grow. So now we've got a lot of courses that we run for existing workers and for people in the Community.
Patty
Tell us about the difference between accredited and non-accredited courses and why you're so passionate about this.
Gricel
So accredited training is more about competency based, so your certificate III in individual support your cert IV in disabilities. Non accredited is about giving people the time to learn specific skills or to find out information without having to concentrate so much on the assessments.
Patty
So it can also be tailored to the individual group as well, or the individual?
Gricel
That's exactly right.
Patty
Yes, got it. So, one of your most popular courses is called Implementing Positive Behaviours Supports. What is your biggest ‘why’ when you're delivering and teaching this essential information?
Gricel
You know, it's funny because Positive Behaviour Supports was the first workshop that we put together on the Set2Learn and the first one that I got paid for.
Patty
And the one that got my attention. And got you on this podcast. (both laugh)
Gricel
That's exactly right. For me was because it was such an essential skill to have as a carer myself. Knowing how to support a child with a disability that has behaviours, something that I struggled with at home even though I had 5-6 years of psychology.
Patty
Yes, lived experience.
Gricel
Definitely, definitely. And there's such a need out there for carers and parents to get information about how to support people, and how to address and even understand, the techniques that you might use when your child is not behaving in the way that people expect. And I try not to use a top-down approach when I'm teaching this. I like to really acknowledge people's experiences and what they live, because a lot of the times we do things which are really good. And we need to make sure that we grow from that rather than coming back and saying, no, you're doing this wrong. You need to change it altogether.
Patty
Got it. So, it sounds like you're really creating a beautiful circle where everyone is valid and equal as opposed to, “I'm in charge and I know and everyone else needs to do it my way”. I love that. Let's define what behaviours of concern, actually means, because many of us have been on the receiving end of hearing phrases like “kids never did this kind of crap in my day or this kind of behaviour would never be tolerated when I was growing up.” Let's unpack that a little bit.
Gricel
I used to get that with my daughter all the time because is she being naughty? Or Just not behaving well. She doesn't meet her behaviours, or meet the expectations of society, or your family members. And in fact, you know, she's just having a bad day.
So, we often hear bad words like bad behaviours kind of being referred to as naughty, even adults with disabilities are sometimes labelled as “naughty”. A behaviour is a response to an internal or external stimuli, and that's what we need to understand.
So, it's a response to something in the environment or something that is happening inside. A behavioural concern is when that response or behaviour presents a safety concern due to its intensity, frequency or duration, and it can impact on the quality of life the person with a disability.
Patty
OK, so a behaviour of concern is when the response or the behaviour is presenting a safety concern. Because it's really intense or it's very frequent or the duration is very long, or it can potentially impact the quality of life of the person with the disability.
Gricel
That's right. And it becomes some say, for example, a child that is running away because he's overwhelmed, is a behaviour of concern because it represents a safety issue if he gets hit by a car.
And, you know, a young person that is screaming for 3-4 hours non-stop that's going to have an impact on the quality of life because that person will be excluded from activities, so you know punching, hitting, spitting are all behaviours of concern.
Patty
OK, what are the important things that we need to consider when addressing or when we're responding to these behaviours. I mean, do we need to adjust the imprint that we have from our own upbringing and even our own subculture or society expectations. I can't help but think that the more established a behaviour is, the more difficult it becomes to change.
Gricel
Definitely, yes. And we need to start by changing our own expectations. Hmm. So your loved one is not doing things on purpose to be mean, and that's the first thing we need to understand. We need to change how we see behaviours. How we interpret that and we need to learn to read into those behaviours and understand what they're trying to tell us, and what we learn from our parents and how to respond to behaviours might not apply to your child.
Patty
Mm-hmm. 100%. Let me ask you why you mean by that? Is that the same genre of example? You gave about your expectations of Kiara needing to be modified earlier.
Gricel
Yes, definitely. And some people think children should sit quietly and behave in a certain way for example, a child in kindergarten might be expected to sit down for hours and listen to the teacher.
Not all children can do that for different reasons, and it's not about being tougher with your child or about discipline. It's hard when you've got family members and people in the community that are being judgmental towards you.
Patty
Alright, let's talk about understanding the function of the behaviour. That’s I think a really key point here.
Gricel
And yes, the most important consideration is trying to understand. What the behaviour is trying to tell you. And to really see that that's the only tools the person has to communicate a need to you. So a lot of people struggle with behaviours because of their own social norms. What we were taught as children and they assumed that the person with a disability or the child with a disability has control over that behaviour. And that's not the case.
Patty
And that's why we immediately deem it inappropriate or rude. Or naughty.
Gricel
That's exactly right. And we think that that person can also stop that behaviour, which is not the case in reality. The person does not have any other tools to communicate their needs to you. And we need to learn about triggers. What's causing those behaviours to make sure that we're not rewarding those behaviours of concern and ignoring good behaviours?
Patty
Let's unpack that a little bit. When you talk about triggers. But first, can you clarify what it means to reward behaviours of concern?
Gricel
Yes, so we usually talk about positive reinforcement. So, for example, when a person screams to get something that they want, or a child starts to scream, they want a lolly, or they want something at the shops. Mum and Dad might not want to get embarrassed, and they actually buy that lolly for them.
So you have now reinforced that behaviour, which is more likely to occur again because what the person is learning is that if I scream and kick and do this, I'm going to get what I want. Without even knowing we're actually starting to reward those behaviours instead of trying to teach the person different tools and different strategies to express what they need.
Patty
That also means that we're ignoring the person when they're sitting quietly, and they're happy because that actually needs positive reinforcement, because on the other end of the spectrum we get positive reinforcement when, say, for example, we study and then we do well in an exam.
Gricel
That's right.
Patty
Yeah, OK, so how do you navigate the tantrum? Is this the million-dollar question?
Gricel
It *is* the $1 billion question. You know, the first thing that we need to try to do as much as possible, and I know this is hard, is not to get embarrassed when things happen when those tantrums happen, so try to ignore it and make sure, obviously always ensuring that your child, the person you're caring for is safe. But the first thing we need to do, is ignore it.
Patty
So this highlights to me why it's so important for carers to have support groups, because it's easy for us to say, just ignore it. But unless you can talk about the practise of how to do that in a supportive environment, how are you really going to do it? Because the carer needs to be robust enough in their energy circuits in their own self worth and in their confidence and in their self identity to be able to say “Hey, I know you're all having a problem with this, but I'm OK. And I'm gonna navigate it in a way that's gonna be best for my child”. Have you ever had to do this? {Yes. She laughs}.
Gricel
YES! A lot of times. I do laugh. I'm gonna share a story which I find a little bit funny, you know? So, I took Kiara to the local shopping centre and she didn't want to go in. And she told me she was unhappy by screaming and, you know, refusing to get out of the car. I just needed to buy a a milk bottle. That's it. Just milk. So, I walked into the shops, Kiara grabbed the trolley and pushed it really hard. She almost killed an old man. And then she went on to grab oranges from the fruit section and start throwing them at people. And you know. How do you ignore that?
Patty
Yeah, how?
Gricel
You're in the middle of a shopping centre and she's throwing oranges at people, and you know, I kind of turned around and had a bit of a giggle because I thought, wouldn't it be great when I'm frustrated, and I don't wanna do something to be able to throw things at people.
But at that point, I needed to one, distract her so she wouldn't hurt anyone. And to understand what she was trying to tell me, which was she was overwhelmed. OK, so I had to stay very calm and wait until she calmed down because there was no point talking to her at that point.
Patty
And in that heightened state.
Gricel
That's exactly right. So I distracted her. And then once she had calmed down, I got her to pick up the oranges.
Patty
How did you distract her? Come on. You've got to give us the juice here.
Gricel
I actually grabbed my phone and started playing a song she likes. Right on my phone. And I went, “oh, my God, the Power Rangers. Look what I found on my phone - The Power Rangers!” and people are looking at me thinking, “She's completely lost it!”
Patty
But you were just ignoring those people, weren't you?
Gricel
Yeah, I don't care. I just ignore them. But the key thing is to stay calm, to think on your feet really. And then to actually talk about the consequences, because I actually got Kiara to apologise to the staff and to understand, you know what had happened and what could be the impact. And I said if you continue to do this. They might call the police next time.
Patty
Was that a little alert for her? Was that like a? Ohh yellow card. So, I don’t wanna get a red card.
Gricel
Yes. She goes, “no police, no police, no police!” Oh, well, well, you're gonna have to stop throwing things and because you might hurt someone, and then they might.
Patty
So, this happened after she came over and went ohh Power Rangers and then it sounds like you watched it for a few minutes.
OK, so what I'm hearing are a few key things and I really wanna summarise them and let me know if I've gotten anything wrong or if I've missed anything. 1 - you did not care if people were looking 2 - You were not embarrassed.
Gricel
Nope.
Patty
3 - you remained calm. 4 - you redirected and found an alternate distraction. In this case, the Power Rangers. 5 - and this is the one thing that I find really powerful, you didn't rush the process of getting your milk and then getting out of there really quickly, and then 6 - you stayed with her until she was able to regulate in her timeline. Not in your timeline.
Gricel
That’s right.
Patty
Oh, my goodness, this is very powerful, and actually what I probably should add in there is that you think this is funny.
Gricel
I do. I was trying not to laugh because that will be rewarding her behaviour, but I just turned around and had a little bit of a giggle. Because I thought, you know, this is her and I need to accept that. The behaviours are the problem, but I still value her as a person and you know, and I thought she's still a teenager.
Patty
And you are also leading by example with other people that think “ohh you know I've got a nephew, or I've got someone that does that, and I don't bring them out because I'm afraid that they'll do this in public”.
And maybe if this lady can do it, maybe I can too. In this case, what were her triggers and what are some triggers that carers have to navigate and possibly be mindful of?
Gricel
Sometimes triggers are quite obvious, sometimes they're not.
OK. So, for example, for her it was, you know, it might be hormones, she could be in pain. It could be sensory overload to visual or audible things. For her at that point, it was that she it was late, and she was tired, and it was unexpected. So, it wasn't a planned visit.
Patty
I see. I see. I know you mentioned that you were running a little late this morning because one of your carers couldn't come, and that was an unexpected thing that Kiara wasn't expecting. So it took you a little bit of time to help her regulate again.
Gricel
That's exactly right. So every time that something happens which is not part of her usual routine, she'll, you know, have to have time to readjust herself, regulate. And it's very important that I don't rush that process that I give her the time to process, which takes her a little bit longer than most people, and it doesn't help when you're in a hurry.
Patty
How does positive behaviour support work?
Gricel
Yeah, so Positive Behaviour Supports is a framework which is evidence based, long term, and it tries to address behaviours of concerns. So, it's a person centred approach, so it allows the family, all the professionals like your behaviour specialist, your psychologist, your OT's, your speech therapists to all work together to 1 - identify the triggers, and the behaviours of concern and what they're trying, or what is the function of those behaviours.
Patty
This is a document that everyone contributes to?
Gricel
Yes. And you know what happens when you've got a child with a or a person with behaviours is that a person will come for an hour and do an assessment, that doesn't tell them the story, does it?
Patty
Of course not.
Gricel
And so that's a problem when it comes to behaviour plans, a lot of the time.
Patty
You're only having one glimpse into their entire life as opposed to a very bigger snapshot.
Gricel
That's exactly right. So positive behaviour supports, allows you to gather all the data. So you get information from all the behaviours, what time in different contexts and then you can share that with other professionals.
Patty
How does an ABC intervention plan come into this? I mean, what are some examples, and what does ABC even stand for?
Gricel
Yes, ABC is a very simple plan which is part of the Positive Behaviour Support and it actually looks at looks at the antecedents, which is what happens before the behaviours. B is for behaviours themselves and C for the consequences.
Patty
Like what happened after?
Gricel
That's exactly right.
Patty
And this is to ensure that nothing is actually rewarding that behaviour.
Gricel
That's exactly right. So it's, it's about trying to gather what happened before the behaviour. So what are the triggers? What happens during their behaviours, so it's intense, is it, you know, how long are they getting worse? Are they getting worse? Are they changing?
Patty
Is it spitting? Is it hitting? Is it shouting?
Gricel
And then is it something rewarding that behaviour? And this is a plan or a template that you can download from the internet and parents can actually use it. I use it all the time with Kiara.
Patty
Ohh good to know. Tell me about dysregulated behaviour.
Gricel
Yes, so disregulated behaviour. It's just behaviours which cannot be controlled by the person, and that's the first thing that we need to understand about behaviours. It's not that the child is trying to be bad or that we are bad parents, because it's also a lot of guilt. So, behaviour dysregulation is not a function of choice making. There are patterns of behaviours that are learned not inherent. And that's another thing that we need to understand.
And they can be changed again and also all behaviours of our functions. So they're trying to communicate something. Dysregulated behaviours are usually supported by the environment, so there's usually something that is rewarding that behaviour to happen again and never assume that behaviours are fixed, so they can always be changed.
Patty
They can always change. OK. Can I just go back and clarify when you say they're supported by the environment, does that mean that in some environments where it might be too loud or too bright, it might be too overwhelming for someone?
Gricel
No, that would be part of the triggers. What we’ll be supporting for example, we pay attention to that behaviour. Even negative attention is potentially a reward. So even telling them off or doing, you know, telling them to stop it can be a reward for the child or the person.
Patty
Got it. I think it's really important to share the no no’s of what not to do.
Gricel
Yes. Never show disappointment or anger. Lecturing and threatening them doesn't work. Physically intervening, that's another one that can actually put you at risk of getting hurt and the child or the person with a disability can get hurt themselves. Never use punishment as a strategy. You know, it won't work because they don't know any other way to tell you what they need and never feed into their behaviour. So, try not to give in.
Patty
So no showing disappointment or anger, no lecturing or threatening, no punishment as a strategy, no giving in to the behaviour. And you said no physical intervention. What about if they're about to hurt someone?
Gricel
Yeah, that's a really tricky and grey area because you're not really supposed to be restricting a person as a worker. As a parent, obviously if the child's about to cross the road you're gonna grab them and pull them back? But think about if a child is having a major outburst and you're trying to grab them, that could actually increase that behaviour because they, you know, it might get him anxious or upset.
Patty
Or feel like they were under threat.
Gricel
That's exactly right. But as a worker and this is good for parents to know, because your workers should not be restricting your child in any way unless they've got a restrictive practice order. So if you’ve got workers that are restricting, they're grabbing your child, they're holding them down, that is not allowed.
Patty
That's good to know. So the first step is prioritising safety. So, understanding that your safety comes first because you can't help anyone if you get hurt.
Gricel
That's right.
Patty
And then knowing when to use those deescalating techniques, such as when they've calmed down, when to back down, and obviously having a safety plan and that depends obviously on whom you're caring for, and I know that you've also said only police can physically restrain a person.
Gricel
Yes.
Patty
Can you tell us what replacement behaviours are and what that would look like in different scenarios?
Gricel
Yeah so, saying “no don’t’ do that” does not work, because it leaves a void. What else, that’s the only way I can tell you that im scared and I wanna run away.
Patty
So if you say “don’t do that”, what do I do then?
Gricel
Well we actually got to say, replace, and we need to learn to recommunicate that. So we need to actually give them something else to do. So, “don’t kick your friends”, and do what? No, so we need to say “hands and feet to ourselves”. “Don’t run”, well and do what? So instead of saying “don’t run”, “walk”. So we need to actually change the way we communicate with the people we are caring for, and be more specific. So instead of saying “no don’t do that” give them something to do instead.
Patty
What's your top tip for careers that are navigating this? This is my final question to you.
Gricel
Yeah, my number one tip is, it's OK to feel overwhelmed. And it's OK to be human, and it's OK to make mistakes. So yes, remember always to focus on the person we become so obsessed with the behaviours of concern, that we forget to enjoy and reward their good behaviours and the good times. You know the happy times, so build those happy moments which are so important for you and for your child or the person you're caring for.
Patty
And celebrate their beautiful characteristics.
Gricel
Yes, yes.
Patty
Not just the “naughty ones”.
Gricel
That's exactly right!
Patty
Gricel, I have no choice but to reward you with our rapid fire wrap up questions.
Gricel
Let's see how we go!
Patty
What do you think people most misunderstand about you?
Gricel
A lot of people think that I'm very outgoing, which is not always true. I can be a very private person too, so I like my own space.
Patty
Would you want to hear the harsh truth, even if it was unflattering?
Gricel
You know, most of the people around me, even at work or my friends have no issues telling me the truth. Even my colleagues, you know, I always get picked on. But I like the fact that they feel safe. And free to say what they think.
Patty
Do you think that society as a whole is improving or not?
Gricel
Yes and no. Improving in awareness and technology, and I guess that's good in a way. I think in a way also we're losing our humanity and our social skills, especially with kids nowadays.
Patty
And the internet?
Gricel
And the internet. Yeah, the iPads and phones.
Patty
What objects do you misplace the most if at all?
Gricel
My car keys all the time. All the time.
Patty
You don't have a special place to keep them?
Gricel
No. I always leave them everywhere and can never find them.
Patty
I love that, Gricel. Thank you so much for joining us. You have been a delight.
Gricel
Thank you for having me.
Patty
And that is it for today my lovely listeners. If this is an episode you know someone you love can really benefit from, please share it with them. As you know, liking, subscribing and giving us a 5 star review also gives the algorithm a helping hand to ensure we get to the right listening ears.
But most of all, if today’s chat with Gricel helped you feel seen, her website is in the show notes. Now, I know Gricel is a feisty outspoken Latina who has also had 18 years of practice with navigating challenging behaviours. And to all our carers who have at some point grappled with similar examples of what Gricel shared from her own lived experience, we’re here to remind you that you are not alone.
Here’s to being part of a supportive community that sees you, appreciates you, wants to understand your loved one’s behaviours, and most of all, wants to help educate others to expand their level of empathy.
We see you. We love you, and until next time, take such good tender care of yourself.
Billy:
If you are caring for a relative or a friend who has a disability, a mental health condition, a life limiting health or medical condition.
Or are frail because they're getting older. Please contact the Carer Gateway on 1800 422 737, or look us up on www.carergateway.gov.au
And if you are a carer, you're allowed to take time to look after yourself. Remember, everyone you care for, is only as okay as you are.