Patty Kikos interviews Tarsha Jones, a Gomeroi woman from country NSW. Tarsha shares her caring journey for her dad, brother, and 2 of her 4 children, along with her journey of discovering her Aboriginal heritage and her calling to eradicate racism, as well as create safe cultural pathways for mob to feel safe when accessing services. GUEST: Tarsha Jones - https://www.carergateway.gov.au/ SOCIAL MEDIA: Follow Patty on Instagram Follow The Benevolent Society on Instagram Follow Carer Gateway on Facebook Follow The Benevolent Society on Facebook CREDITS: Host – Patty Kikos Producers – Patty Kikos and John Hresc Sound Engineer – John Hresc GET IN TOUCH: Carer Gateway is proud to offer emotional and practical services and support for carers with the aim of making your life easier. You can call us on 1800 422 737 to find out more about peer support groups, counselling, coaching, online skills courses, tailored support packages, emergency respite, other government supports, as well as tips and information, or visit our online home at www.carergateway.gov.au Got some questions or thoughts for Patty or the team? Email us at cgconnections@benevolent.org.au and put ‘Attention Patty’ in the subject line. ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS: The Benevolent Society acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.
Patty Kikos interviews Tarsha Jones, a Gomeroi woman from country NSW. Tarsha shares her caring journey for her dad, brother, and 2 of her 4 children, along with her journey of discovering her Aboriginal heritage and her calling to eradicate racism, as well as create safe cultural pathways for mob to feel safe when accessing services.
GUEST:
Tarsha Jones - https://www.carergateway.gov.au/
SOCIAL MEDIA:
Follow Patty on Instagram
Follow The Benevolent Society on Instagram
Follow Carer Gateway on Facebook
Follow The Benevolent Society on Facebook
CREDITS:
Host – Patty Kikos
Producers – Patty Kikos and John Hresc
Sound Engineer – John Hresc
GET IN TOUCH:
Carer Gateway is proud to offer emotional and practical services and support for carers with the aim of making your life easier.
You can call us on 1800 422 737 to find out more about peer support groups, counselling, coaching, online skills courses, tailored support packages, emergency respite, other government supports, as well as tips and information, or visit our online home at www.carergateway.gov.au
Got some questions or thoughts for Patty or the team? Email us at cgconnections@benevolent.org.au and put ‘Attention Patty’ in the subject line.
ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS:
The Benevolent Society acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.
Billy:
From the Carer Gateway at the Benevolent Society, we welcome you to, Carer Conversations with your host Patty Kikos.
The Care Gateway is the Australian Government national care hub and provides reliable services, support and advice especially for carers.
This podcast is where we share interviews with guests that have specialized knowledge to help support carers to look after their emotional, mental and physical well-being.
We are recording on Aboriginal country, on lands which were never ceded. We acknowledge the traditional custodians and cultural knowledge holders of these lands and waters. We pay our respects to Aboriginal elders, past and present.
Always was, always will be.
---
Patty
Tarsha Jones is from Gomeroi land in country NSW. She's been working in an identified role with The Benevolent Society as the Partnerships and Engagement Officer for Aboriginal Development. Tarsha has been engaging in community with mob, to build relationships and work with families and children in early intervention.
She’s passionate about supporting Indigenous families to bridge the gaps that have impacted Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Peoples because of past policies and practices that never really worked well to begin with. Tarsha creates cultural pathways and builds on partnerships with community controlled organisations, - so very much, mob supporting mob.
But why is she on the podcast today?
Well Tarsha has an incredible story about her cultural identity, and she happens to be a carer in various capacities for her dad, brother, son and daughter some of which she will share with us today, but some stories will remain private for personal reasons. Tarsha. Hello and welcome.
Tarsha
Thank you.
Patty
Now, one of the questions our audience would really like to ask you is given how you identify quite strongly with your Aboriginal heritage, would you consider yourself to be biracial or solely Aboriginal?
Tarsha
I found this question bit challenging, but I guess I am biracial, but I identify strongly as an Aboriginal woman.
Patty
I mean, despite your family's hesitation to accept your Aboriginal heritage, your mum is the one that actually discovered it when you were 16. How did that even change your life?
Tarsha
Dramatically, I guess is the the best way to describe it. I always knew there was something missing. Family always knew, but they had their own reluctance. So that was challenging. And we never spoke about it.
Patty
And when you say family, which side of the family knew? Both? One or the other?
Tarsha
Both! Both sides knew, but my dad's family, where my Aboriginal background comes from are the ones that knew, but they don't want to acknowledge or accept our cultural identity.
Patty
Well, it's a huge part of why Australia was so racist and it's so difficult to accept that part of yourself when it wasn't socially accepted to be Aboriginal. I can only imagine how difficult school would have been for you.
Tarsha
Yeah, it was challenging. I had many racial slurs thrown at me. I was often called “Coon”, but didn't know why I was being called “Coon”. And as I said, there was always something missing. I knew there was something missing and when I chose to accept and acknowledge my culture, I found that missing piece.
Patty
Where's your mother's side from?
Tarsha
They're German, Scottish, Irish.
Patty
Oh, so you've got a lovely mix. Now, you grew up in a black community as a white person, not knowing that you identified as Aboriginal. Did the Aboriginal community accept you when they discovered your heritage?
Tarsha
Ohh look I always think of how beautiful the community were in Moree. They accepted us even though my family was in denial, which you know could have been quite challenging. My best friend growing up from Grade 2 is an Aboriginal woman that I'm still really close with, and they knew.
Patty
So she knew??
Tarsha
Yep, she knew, they knew, and I didn't. So how accepting were they to not judge me, not treat me differently? Because they actually knew, and I had no idea.
Patty
And they knew that you didn't know, and respected your journey into knowing, into accepting or denying, and still accepted you unconditionally. That's extraordinary.
Tarsha
Yeah. Yeah. 100% it is.
Patty
And your dad's friends are they still in Moree?
Tarsha
Yeah, they look they are and a lot of my dad's mates that he grew up with are now our Elders on my country. So, they were so accepting of us. I accepted my cultural heritage before my dad accepted his, so he's now on his own cultural journey. And it was like I gave him that ability to be able to go on his own cultural journey.
Patty
It's like you paved the way for him in a way isn’t it?
Tarsha
Yeah, I did. And he's so proud. And it's beautiful. He's a beautiful man.
Patty
I bet!
Tarsha
But yeah, like my friends say to me, back home, back on my country, you know, I left this country as one person and I need to return as the person that I am today.
Patty
Did your dad's side of the family, so, for instance, his sisters accept this as part of their own legacy?
Tarsha
No, and they still don't today. In fact, they've disowned me for the work that I do. And the fact that I accept culture, and that I'm a part of the Aboriginal community. So, they've actually disowned me.
Patty
How does that land for you? Because you were quite close to them when you were growing up, weren't you?
Tarsha
Yeah, yeah, definitely. Look, I'm OK with it. I say it as this is my story to tell and that's their story to tell. So, I'm quite OK with it. I struggled with my dad's eldest sister because I had a lot of respect for her growing up. We lived across the road from them. I spent a lot of time with her, so I did find that challenging, but she's actually sort of coming around, so we're making that connection again.
Patty
I can't help but notice that the respect that was given to you by your Aboriginal country and your Aboriginal people is something that you're giving to your family.I love how you hold the space for your family in that way. I mean, they loved and supported you regardless of whether you accepted your heritage. And this unconditional love is something to be revered in any culture. Does your mum's side of the family accept your Aboriginal ancestry as part of your heritage?
Tarsha
Hard to answer. They know. They knew.
Patty
Even then, when you didn't know, they knew?
Tarsha
Yeah. They can be racist, and we're currently estranged from them anyway, since my grandmother's passing, so it doesn't impact on me anymore.
Patty
So, you don't have a lot of interaction, which is great. So, it means that you're not depleted emotionally by having to interact with people who won't validate who you are.
Tarsha
Yeah, definitely.
Patty
You've experienced more than your fair share of racism. And what is unique to your story is that it comes from both sides of your communities and for anyone that thinks that racism towards Aboriginal Torres Strait Islander Peoples is a thing of the past, there's a story you've shared privately with me about when your daughter was 3, and she had an accident at daycare. Now they didn't follow protocol by informing you about it. And then things spiralled quite quickly afterwards. Are you happy to tell us a little bit about that?
Tarsha
Yeah, definitely so my daughter. As you said, was 3, she was at daycare. She'd had an accident, and she'd actually fallen on a pencil. When I picked her up from school that afternoon from daycare, they told me that she was complaining when she was going to the toilet. And I said OK, I'll keep an eye on it overnight, and we'll see what happens.
There were no concerns, so she went to daycare the next day. And it was mid-morning. I got a phone call from the Child Protection Investigation Unit and a detective said that they were taking my daughter to the hospital and that I was to meet them there at the hospital. So, when I got there, they wouldn't allow me to nurse my daughter or grab my daughter, who was screaming for me.
Patty
Or comfort her. Did you go by yourself, Tasha?
Tarsha
No, I took my mum with me.
Patty
You took your white mum with you?
Tarsha
Yep! I wasn't allowed to hold Georgia. I was allowed to interact with her. But when she asked to go to the toilet, I had to take a nurse and the female detective with me for her to go to the toilet.
Patty
So, they basically were supervising you, interacting with your own child?
Tarsha
100% and then they questioned me about what males were in my house. What males were around my children. All these sorts of questions. Then the doctor allowed me to go in with the doctor (my mum and I), without the detectives.
Patty
Oh wow.
Tarsha
The doctor examined my daughter and said she's fallen on like a pencil or, you know, a sharp object. And I explained to him that the daycare had told me that she'd fallen at school the day before.
He was actually amazing. He went out and spoke to the detectives and said this should not have been what it was.
Patty
As in, it should never have escalated like this?
Tarsha
No, and actually, he did explain to the detective for the teacher to be able to find the little dot that was there, she would have had to pry my daughter apart.
Patty
Ohh.
Tarsha
How dare she?
Patty
What happened to her?
Tarsha
I took it further! So this will be on my daughter's record for the rest of her life because it went through the Child Protection Investigation Unit. But I wrote a letter of complaint to the school and the teacher was eventually removed from the school.
Patty
Oh, that's a good outcome, and your daughter to this day, how does she respond to this? I mean, like, would she tick a box saying that she's aboriginal?
Tarsha
Yes and no. She struggles with it. She has seen, I guess, through the work that I've done, the impacts that it can have on young, young mothers, young fathers.
Patty
Who get stigmatised?
Tarsha
Yeah, so quite often she won't tick that box because she doesn't want people to know that her child is Aboriginal.
Patty
Reverberating repercussions.
Tarsha
Yeah, yeah.
Patty
I mean, how do you deal with it today? That was, almost not quite, but almost 20 years ago.
Tarsha
Yeah, I've grown a voice. And I've taught my children to stand up for what they believe in. And that's been really powerful for me.
My youngest daughter is very fair skinned, and she really struggles with her identity. So, she doesn't necessarily experience the same racism as her darker skinned friends do, or even her sister for that matter, who is darker skinned.
Patty
Interesting. Would you say she experiences it in reverse when people would say something like, “you're too white should be aboriginal?”
Tarsha
100% That's what happens to her. But I've also given her the ability to use her voice and be proud and really connected with her culture. But, you know, to make sure she does it in a respectful way. She's learned from me how to be polite but have an impact. And I I've taught her those social skills because I've had to.
Patty
You've got an extraordinary story of your cultural connection being rejected by, of course, like we've said, not one side, but both sides of your family. And I know your dad is a huge supporter of you.
Like you said earlier, he's so proud of you and your work, and we'll speak about that shortly. I'd love to know what keeps you going. I mean, is there a drive Tarsha, is it something deep within your spirit that's maybe even hard to put into words?
I'm wondering if it's a purpose that's greater than you and has a desire to keep going because I've got to say, you could easily have become a feisty person that swore your way out of your frustrations.
Tarsha {laughs}
Like the angry black woman as they say!
Yep, I have a purpose. I want to make an impact. I want to influence, disrupt and make changes on a work level, on a personal level and in my community.
You know, on a personal level, I want to show my kids that it's OK to be on your own journey and to accept who you are and where you're from. My lived experience is epic. I've had many different lived experiences, and I don't know how I even got out of bed some days, you know, but I'm here and I'm strong.
Patty
Nor do I.
Tarsha
I've experienced things like within my immediate family, drug addiction, alcoholism, domestic violence, marriage breakdown. And I really wanted to show my kids that I could turn my life around. And by turning my life around, my husband was inspired and wanted to step up, and he did just that.
And I'm so proud of what he's done. And it showed my girls. For me, it was my girls that I could be strong and that I don't have to be stuck in an environment where I'm never gonna thrive. And I think for my boys, it was really important for them to see their dad do the same.
Patty
Yes, and come back with very different dynamics. You know, that speaks volumes to ruptures that get repaired.
Tarsha
100%.
Patty
So in various forms you've been a carer for a number of people intergenerationally in your family. Let's start with your brother. Now the vernacular about this may not necessarily have existed back then. But now you would definitely have been classed as a Young Carer as he had experienced frontal lobe brain damage and experienced an addiction to drugs many years later.
Tarsha
Yeah. Yeah. So my brother was run over by a semi-trailer when he was 3. I was 1at the time. My parents were young parents, and my mum was 16 and my dad was 19 when they got married and my mum was pregnant when she got married, they had to get permission to get married. Well, my mum did, because of her age.
I often say to her, "Did you get married because you were pregnant?” and she laughs at me and she says “No, it was just the done thing. Marry young, have children.” But you know I can't go into the full details of that day as I was only 1, but my brother did die several times on the flight to Sydney. My mum and dad weren't allowed to go with him on that flight.
Patty
Why not?
Tarsha
Back, I don't know. I guess they didn't have the capacity to be able to take him in the plane with mum and dad in the plane as well. So, he was flown straight to Sydney.
Patty
Alright. And what did they do? Did they drive there?
Tarsha
They had to. From Moree.
Patty
Who looked after you?
Tarsha
My mum's sister, who was I think she was about 15 or 16 at the time. I know she would have been 14 or 15 cause Mum was, yeah.
Patty
Wow.
Tarsha
So, she was left to care for me. My mum still has the notes that she wrote down on how to care for me.
Patty
Ohh my goodness.
Tarsha
Yep!
Patty
So very early on, you knew you had an older brother that needed special care. Would you agree with that?
Tarsha
Yeah, definitely.
Patty
And what did that look like?
Tarsha
He wasn't allowed to cry for 12 months. He wasn't allowed to cry. He had a craniotomy done. And he wasn't allowed to cry. They didn't expect him to live to the age of 5.
Patty
How old is he now?
Tarsha
He’s now 52, I say he's got more lives than a cat. 😊
{Both laugh}
Tarsha
But back when he was 15, I was 12. He got addicted to drugs. Well, he started experimenting with drugs.
Patty
I see. So, he was self-medicating clearly.
Tarsha
Ohh 100% and the doctors didn't tell my parents the full impact of his frontal lobe brain damage he incurred.
Patty
Yeah, why would they not have done that?
Tarsha
Because they were so young, they didn't think they’d understand.
Patty
Ohh, they just assumed.
Tarsha
Yeah, they just assumed they wouldn't understand. So, they didn't tell them the full extent.
Patty
How were they expected to care for him? How would they have known what to do for him?
Tarsha
Exactly! Exactly right! And I guess just lucky, you know, my mum's a very smart, intelligent woman. And my dad, you know, they just got by. They did what they had to do. My brother did have visits every 12 months to Sydney. The doctor fainted one day when he walked in because I think he was about 18 and they were like, “No! you're not still here?!”
Patty
Wow. And I mean, he and you developed a very, very close bond.
Tarsha
Him and I are very, very close. He's actually an intelligent person. He's smarter than I am! He was with me during all 4 births of my children. In fact, I was like, “Where's Jamie? Where's Jamie?” Like if he wasn't there, I wasn't having my child. . So, we're very, very close.
Patty
Ohh what a beautiful connection. So, he was obviously self-medicating his pain and tell me about what his brain damage meant for him.
Tarsha
So, it meant that he had no decision-making skills or executive functioning. He couldn't say no to people he was drinking and taking drugs to self-medicate I guess. Yeah, he'd steal from us. He'd sell stuff to deal with his drug addiction for 25 years. He was drug addicted.
Patty
Sure. Ohh wow.
Tarsha
We were so close, I struggled. I couldn't cope with not knowing where he was because he'd leave home I was always worried.
Patty
That would have been a big burden for someone so young.
Tarsha
Yeah, it was. But you know, I’d often have days off school because I couldn't cope. I didn't know where he was or if he was OK. So, he's been clean now for over 10 years.
Patty
Go, Jamie.
Tarsha
Yep. And during my marriage breakdown, he was my rock. He stepped up and he really supported and helped me, and my kids are all really close to him.
Patty
I mean in many upper-class societies, Tarsha, especially ones overseas, boarding school is considered an essential rite of passage, and in some outback remote communities, it's also important to ensure that children receive a good education.
But you actually requested to go to boarding school, and your parents agreed in order to give you a break from your brother for a little while. I mean, things were different in my house. My mum threatened to send me when I was naughty. What was it like for you to board?
Tarsha
Board. I absolutely loved it. I thrived. I had an amazing time.
There were periods, you know, I was grateful. I was at school like my brother went, went missing for about 2 weeks.
Patty
Did you know about it?
Tarsha
No, they didn't tell me until right up till the end because they were worried I wouldn't be able to function at school worrying. But then in the end, they decided to tell me because they worried that he'd turn up at my school.
Patty
Now, if that weren't enough, I understand your dad, then, years later, subsequently required care because he has acquired brain injury from a truck accident and your mum is his (and your brother Jamie’s) primary carer.
Tarsha
Yeah.
Patty
Now the support that you give your dad emotionally, while ensuring that he's connected to community and mob is important to him well. Because there are many things that you do that your mum can't necessarily do, would you agree?
Tarsha
Yeah, definitely. I've been a big part of my dad's cultural journey, so it's like that reverse role where normally he would be my role model. Yeah, you know, but I've actually really done that for him. And I've made him feel safe to be on that journey.
When I first wanted to go on my journey, all I needed was my dad's blessing. I didn't care about anybody else in the family as long as I had my dad's blessing, and he gave that to me. It was quite an emotional time because he accepted what I was doing, and he was OK and he tells me every day. Every day, he tells me he's proud of me.
Patty
Well, you're not just a disruptor, you're also a way shower, aren't you? Yeah. And so, I mean, what you've done is allowed him to be on his journey. And I wonder if there's storytelling that he does that impacts you?
Tarsha
Yeah, it's been amazing. Some of the stories he tells me now that he feels safe to tell me. About culture and his life growing up on Country.
Patty
Like what?
Tarsha
You know, he just tells me things about some of the Elders now and things they did when they were younger. Umm, the connections that he had, you know, even my brother, my brother can talk in some of our language.
Yeah, which you would never have known. My dad can say things in some language that he tells me. At work one day when my dad was young, he was, I think he was about 18 or 19. He was at work, he worked in the abattoirs in Moree, as a slaughterman and an Aboriginal man approached him. They were talking about shearing, and when Dad said who his uncle was, he said, “you're my cousin,” and dad goes, “No, no, no, I don't think so”. And he said, “We're cousins, believe me”. So, Dad went home and asked his father because this was an Aboriginal man that said this to my dad and he went home and asked his father, “Was it true?” And his father said, “Yes, it is true, but don't talk to your mother about it”.
Patty
Ohh to have to hide who you are to stay safe. I mean, this was utter, pure unadulterated self-preservation.
Tarsha
It was very, very challenging.
Patty
Tasha, when you completed school, community development was not on your radar. In fact, you yearned to be a fashion designer, but due to the complexity of your family's needs, you worked in the family business to help your parents. What did you do? What was all that about?
Tarsha
Yeah. So, I actually got accepted into Design School. I chose not to go because of my brother's needs at the time and what my parents were going through and didn't know how they were going to cope.
We needed us to all come together as one to support each other. My mum has post-traumatic stress disorder from both my dad and my brother’s accidents. She acknowledges that she has it but she doesn't really do much about it.
Patty
Do you think you do as well?
Tarsha
Oh definitely. But I acknowledge and I know what my triggers are, and know how to deal with certain situations whereas my mum hasn't been on that journey.
Patty
On that healing journey. Yeah, from PTSD to complex PTSD. So that's interesting. And so what was the business that your parents had?
Tarsha
They bought a pet shop with my brother and my parents because they thought it would be something my brother would enjoy. But, he struggled. He worked, but he struggled to stay in jobs and then due to his drug addiction that made things a lot worse.
So, he would come into the shop and steal the profits. I was in there one day. He took the whole till and I was in there on my own. And I was like, “I've got to give this lady change!” And so he gave her the change, and then took the whole till.
Patty
Oh, is it nice to be able to think back and laugh about it? Even though at the time it was quite traumatic?
Tarsha
Yeah. But at the time it was horrific. It was horrific.
Patty
You met your husband and then went on to have 4 beautiful children. What then inspired you to study for the Diploma of Child Youth and Family Intervention at TAFE? What was that pivot about?
Tarsha
Yeah. So, my husband and I had separated. And I was a single mum living in a shed with my 4 children.
Patty
Wow, four children alone in a shed. Yeah, in Queensland? Yeah, by yourself?
Tarsha
Yeah.
Patty
And had you worked before or were you a stay at home mum?
Tarsha
I was a stay at home mum but I had worked previously. I'd had my own businesses and stuff, but because I hadn't worked for six years no one wanted to look at me.
Patty
Is this why you decided to study?
Tarsha
Yeah, 100%.And I wanted to show my kids I could do it.
Patty
Yeah. So, this would have turned your whole life around.
Tarsha
It did. It did turn my whole life around. I went from, you know, being on a Centrelink payment to getting a job on my last placement with my TAFE course that I did and started earning 80K a year. You know within 12 months.
Patty
That is an extraordinary story for anyone to listen to. Wow. . I mean, isn't that interesting? Those skills are so transferable. Your skills as a carer, your skills as starting your own business, your skills with having not 1-2 but 3 or 4 children, and then doing your placement, excelling, being offered a job or within a year, yeah. Now you've been a carer for 2of your children. How has this impacted you and your family?
Tarsha
I laugh because I say if you ask my eldest son and my youngest daughter, they'll tell you they missed out!
Patty
Ohh no. The glass children where you see right through them?
Tarsha
Yeah. Ohh, but I actually do have guilt there. I did to them, I guess. What my mum did to me with my brother. And this makes me emotional. I did what I had to do to survive at the time, and I focused on the the 2 that needed that extra help.
Patty
So, what did that look like for your son?
Tarsha
So, with Darcy, I've had to pull Darcy out of school. He hasn't been at school since year 7. 3 weeks in, I had to go to the Child Protection Investigation Unit. And I also went to the Minister of Education, who gave me no support. So, I did what I thought was right for my son, and I now actually have a beautiful boy that I can take anywhere and I'm proud of.
I took away those triggers for him, yeah.
Patty
Where he wasn't thriving in an environment that wasn't set up for him.
Tarsha
Yeah, and taught him life skills just to me more important.
Patty
Yes. And transferable.
Tarsha
Yeah. Yeah.
Patty
And with Georgia?
Tarsha
Yeah, with Georgia, she went to grade 11, but she really struggled at school. But she found her niche was horses. And so, I did whatever it took to make sure that girl could ride and show and live her best life with her horses.
Patty
So, she had her own version of equine therapy?
Tarsha
100% and sometimes I'd have $10 left to my name, but I would make sure she got what she needed.
Patty
You've also said that you recognised what you did with your 2 other children and you gave them an apology that you never got from your mum. So, you know, in a way, you’re not repeating family trauma.
Tarsha
Yeah, definitely. I really recognise, especially with my youngest daughter that you know, I apologised to her because she could cope, and I knew she could cope and so I just sort of let her go and I focused on Georgia.
Patty
Yeah.
Tarsha
And Darcy and she didn't get that nurturing from me that she needed. So, I have apologised to her and she's now riding horses too and living her best life. But yeah, I never got that apology. My mum always had to focus on my brother. And I understand that.
Patty
It also shows what a different generation does when you know better, you do better.
Tarsha
Definitely.
Patty
Have you noticed by any chance the difference with the way mob look after their loved ones as opposed to non-indigenous families? Because you come from both? So if anyone's gonna have an opinion on this, it's you.
Tarsha
Definitely. I love how accepting mob are. They're nonjudgement. Whereas I find that the non-indigenous are more judgmental and I've experienced that judgement from pulling my son out of school.
Patty
Yeah, you've said that your son has a mild intellectual disability and ADHD. And your daughter has Asperger's. And what I love about your daughter is that she is her mother's daughter. Because she just won't accept her diagnosis. She's like, “no, this is who I am, and this is how I'm gonna thrive”. She's bought her own home. She's got an 18 month old and she's got another bubba on the way.
Tarsha
Yes, she has. She actually just got a tattoo the other day that says ‘one-of-a-kind'.
Patty
Nice.
Tarsha
And I was like, “That's so you!” Yeah, she doesn't accept her diagnosis. My son does have a mild intellectual disability, but I actually believe it's more trauma related.
Patty
That he's holding on to? That intergenerational trauma, in addition to everything else he's been through?
Tarsha
Yeah.
Patty
What advice would? You give to Tarsha the younger version of yourself. That was struggling at the peak of her caring role?
Tarsha
I wish I had the ability to acknowledge and accept my culture back then. I think it would have made a massive difference in my life. It took my dad getting his own acquired brain injury for us to better understand my brother.
Patty
Ohh cause by then you would have been told how to care for him and what he needs. How ironic.
Tarsha
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was. And you know, I grew up in a small country town. That town had limited support and skills available to help with the needs of my brother and I would never allow my kids to go through what I went through.
Patty
Yeah, well, you've taken steps to stop that from repeating itself, haven't you? How can Carer Gateway improve the way that they connect with carers that culturally identify as being Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander peoples?
Tarsha
Yeah. So, I've done a bit of work with the Carer Gateway. It's about getting our non-indigenous brothers and sisters to understand our way and I think that's the first step and if we create more culturally safe pathways, we'll feel safe to access the supports. This also includes having employees with the same background.
Patty
So that people feel comfortable speaking to someone that really has walked in their shoes?
Tarsha
100%. They have the choice if they want that.
The work can't always be done though by mob, so it's really important that we have our allies that walk alongside us.
Patty
Mm-hmm. And This is why I'm so grateful for the training sessions that you facilitate. I find that our CALD communities have expressed many similarities with their respective cultures in terms of how they look after their vulnerable relatives and I know you've also been run down because you haven't rested enough, much like many of my female relatives.
Tarsha
Yeah, it's just go, go, go.
But you know, sometimes you come to a breaking point or a burning point where you need to take that time for yourself, which I did.
Patty
But and as carers as well, it's knowing the patterns that come up that are similar experiences to what we've undergone and traversed before, and just saying, “look, if I don't stop and rest now, it's going to escalate and I'm going to get sicker than I need to be”.
Tarsha
100%. Yeah. Yeah, because I don't get sick and I've found in the last few months I've been continuously not well.
Patty
Hmm. Rapid Fire Wrap Up Question Time. Tarsha, Are you ready for this?
Tarsha
I am!
Patty
OK, how long does it take you to get ready in the morning?
Tarsha
About 30 minutes give or. Take. Yeah, if my kids aren't hanging around.
Patty
And a hair straight and hasn't been stolen.
Tarsha
Yeah, that's right, Patty! {both laugh}
Patty
Tapas or pasta?
Tarsha
I love both.
Patty
Good. I like this and. But how would you rate your karaoke skills on a scale of one to Mariah Carey?
Tarsha
Well, when singing in the shower, I'd like to think I'm Mariah Carey!
Patty
Yeah. And who's to say you're not?
Tarsha
Well, this is right!
Patty
What's your current desktop or cell phone wallpaper? And why did you choose that image?
Tarsha
It's of my children because I'm so proud of them.
Patty
What would the title of your autobiography be?
Tarsha
Yeah, I really had to think about this one. I think I’d call it ‘Black and White -the story of lived experience through both worlds.’
Patty
Ah, boom. There's the hook right there!
That’s all we have time for today folks. I feel so lucky that I got to introduce you to Tarsha as she really is a woman that has experienced life in both white, and Aboriginal cultures.
So if anyone is qualified to help us bridge the gap between both, it was always going to be her.
If this chat with Tarsha touched your heart, or you know of someone that can benefit from hearing it, liking, subscribing or leaving us a 5 star review, really helps us get to the right listening ears.
We’re sending you lots of love from Carer Gateway and until we meet again, please take extra good care of yourself and schedule in the things that help restore your energy.
Billy:
If you are caring for a relative or a friend who has a disability, a mental health condition, a life limiting health or medical condition.
Or they are frail because they're getting older. Please contact us at Carer Gateway on 1800 422 737, or look us up on www.carergateway.gov.au
And if you are a carer, you're allowed to take time to look after yourself. You are just as important as the person you take care of.
SIMPLECAST + APPLE + SPOTIFY
Patty Kikos interviews Tarsha Jones, a Gomeroi woman from country NSW. Tarsha shares her caring journey for her dad, brother, and 2 of her 4 children, along with her journey of discovering her Aboriginal heritage and her calling to eradicate racism, as well as create safe cultural pathways for mob to feel safe when accessing services.
GUEST:
Tarsha Jones - https://www.carergateway.gov.au/
SOCIAL MEDIA:
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CREDITS:
Host – Patty Kikos
Producers – Patty Kikos and John Hresc
Sound Engineer – John Hresc
GET IN TOUCH:
Carer Gateway is proud to offer emotional and practical services and support for carers with the aim of making your life easier.
You can call us on 1800 422 737 to find out more about peer support groups, counselling, coaching, online skills courses, tailored support packages, emergency respite, other government supports, as well as tips and information, or visit our online home at www.carergateway.gov.au
Got some questions or thoughts for Patty or the team? Email us at cgconnections@benevolent.org.au and put ‘Attention Patty’ in the subject line.
ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS:
The Benevolent Society acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.