In honour of NAIDOC week, Patty Kikos interviews Sierra, a proud First Nations Wiradjuri woman who lives in the Central West of NSW with her mother. In part 2 of this interview series, Sierra shares the tumultuous journey she faced when she was unable to complete high school and had to work to support her mother and younger brother when her older sister moved out. Her story of triumph had some more bumps along the way, with a surprise diagnosis of her own more recently.
Sierra:
You know, you’re Aboriginal, so it must be drugs or alcohol, must be involved.
Patty:
Is that something that you find repeatedly offensive as a First Nations person from Service Providers or organisations in general?
Sierra:
So I find it incredibly insulting to be told that, “Ohh you are very well spoken for an for an Aboriginal person, or you don't look like an Aboriginal person should. You know, you dress very well or there's no such thing as a gap between Aboriginal and white Australian people”.
They don't understand that there are still echoes of the issues coming through the Stolen Generation. It was not something in the 1900’s, it was still happening in the 80s.
Patty:
That's right.
Sierra:
Children were still being taken. It was still not safe.
Billy:
From the Carer Gateway at the Benevolent Society, we welcome you to, Carer Conversations with your host Patty Kikos.
The Carer Gateway is the Australian Government national care hub and provides reliable services, support and advice especially for carers.
This podcast is where we share interviews with guests that have specialized knowledge to help support carers to look after their emotional, mental and physical well-being.
We are recording on Aboriginal country, on lands which were never ceded. We acknowledge the traditional custodians and cultural knowledge holders of these lands and waters. We pay our respects to Aboriginal elders, past and present.
Always was, always will be.
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Patty:
Welcome back. Welcome back. Welcome back.
I have some good news and I have some excellent news. The good news is that I will not be giving up my day job as a podcast host to become a singer anytime soon.
And the excellent news is that Part 2 of Sierra's interview is now ready for your listening ears. If you've just tuned in and don't have the context for part 1, I urge you to go back and listen.
If you're a little bit of a rebel who likes to challenge any form of authority. I see you. I hear you. In fact, occasionally I am you.
So here's a quick summary. Sierra is a First Nations where Wiradjuri woman who lives in the Central Coast of NSW with her mother. She's 24 years young and has been a carer, a Young Carer, in fact, since she was 9 years old after her mum was discharged from hospital and was no longer able to care for herself, the family or manage the household chores.
Sierra not only cares for her mum, who was diagnosed with dementia at 48 but up until recently, she also cared for her younger brother, who is autistic, dyslexic and has also been diagnosed with ADHD, ADD Oppositional Behavioral Disorder and obsessive-compulsive disorder.
Sierra’s older sister found it challenging to help with the care of their younger brother, and Sierra’s school had no idea what was going on at home. In fact, she hadn't felt comfortable in sharing this information as she feared that if authorities were to find out, it would run the risk of her family being split up and separated.
The other reason for Sierra's hesitation stemmed from her ancestors being taken away from their bloodlines, been forced into white assimilation and having their language, country and history decimated from their life as part of the government's Stolen Generation.
The Stolen Generation refers to a period in Australia's history where Aboriginal children were removed from their families through government policies.
Children experienced neglect, abuse and they were more likely to suffer from depression, mental illness and low self-esteem. They were also more vulnerable to physical, psychological and sexual abuse in state care or while living with non-indigenous families.
So where are we up to? In part 1 of Sierra's story? Well, we left Sierra and she'd been devastated due to the nature of her demanding role as a carer.
She'd taken so many days off school that her school had informed her she was no longer eligible to pass her higher School Certificate, and was this such a big deal I hear you ask?
Well, for Sierra, it really was because in that moment her hopes and dreams of going to university and leaving poverty behind were shattered.
Let's head back to the interview.
Sierra:
I was mourning the chance to go to university and the chance to leave poverty behind me. It was only a year later when I met, when I was connected with a caseworker through Centre Care.
Wilcannia Forbes, she came around to my house and was just introducing herself. She just started in the role, and we went out for coffee and some Thai food, and we talked about what I wanted to do with my life.
I also talked to the person at the university who was responsible for admissions, and we talked about alternate pathways, and it wasn't just, you know you had to complete year 12 to be able to do it.
You could do an alternative course so you could do a Certificate 3, that did not require a High School Certificate to enter. Most of them are less than 6 months in duration and then you get into university.
Patty:
Yeah. And that's what you did. Had you chosen to do nursing at that stage?
Sierra:
So I actually went and did an ‘Assistant Nursing Course’ for Aged Care because I thought, it's not much different from what I'm doing with Mum, and that was actually how I found out that mum had dementia.
We were talking about the clinical manifestation and clinical symptoms of dementia, and that was when I connected the dots with the doctor's visit back when I was in my teen years.
And I went to the GP, and I sat and discussed my concerns with her, and she was quite surprised, she said, “didn't you know that your mum had dementia? It's noted in her file.
Patty:
Wow.
Sierra:
I think something that a lot of people don't understand is, the symptoms that she was exhibiting didn't scream DEMENTIA. They whispered, “Hey, something's not quite right here.”
She would get mad at me for not doing something that she had asked me to do, but she hadn't actually asked me to do it. She had thought, “Right, I need to ask Sarah to do this job.”
She would forget and then she would think she'd already asked me and then get quite frustrated that I hadn't done it.
Patty:
Yeah, I see.
Sierra:
And it would drive me absolutely bonkers. As a teenager I thought “Ohh parents are just so rude.”
Patty:
And irrational...
Sierra:
And irrational! Why is she mad that I didn't do this? She never asked, and she would always blame it on teenage smooth swings. Hmm, you know, teenage irritability. I just hadn't done the thing that she'd asked me to, not realising that she hadn't actually said anything.
Patty:
And then what happened after that? Did you complete the ‘Assistant in Nursing’ certification?
Sierra:
So I actually was unable to complete it due to an issue with the teacher.
I found it quite upsetting as a First Nations person, that she had talked about how she wished she could round up all the indigenous people and take them back to the stations that she had seen growing up.
She was in her 60’s or so around the time and said that “they looked so much happier on the stations living in the tin sheds.”
Patty:
Where they were forced to work without pay.
Sierra:
They were forced to work on her family farm much and she was, when she could round up every Aboriginal person and take them back there.
Patty:
So you reported her?
Sierra:
I did and. And they came to a decision. They took to several other students who were in my class, and they took to her and decided that what she had said was not meant in an upsetting way and that I was simply too sensitive.
Patty:
Oh, so you were also gaslit.
Sierra:
I filed an official complaint and withdrew from the course after that. Because that attitude is best antiquated but quite racist.
Patty:
Absolutely, unequivocally inappropriate.
Sierra:
But I persevered. I decided, you know what I'm going to try something else.
And I didn't want to sign up straight away for the university degree for 2reasons. One, I wasn't certain I'd get in, and I wasn't certain that nursing was for me, so I went and I did a diploma of Nursing because the debt was considerably smaller, so if I decided I didn't want to go through it after all, I was not paying $30,000.
Patty:
That's right. So, you did that diploma through a TAFE instead of a University?
Sierra:
Yep. So, I went through TAFE and did my Diploma of Nursing.
As a recurring theme in education, especially for carers, things got worse at home. Needs became more intense and again I had to pull out.
I was ten weeks short of finishing my diploma.
Patty:
And how long was the diploma?
Was it a year?
Sierra:
2 years
Patty:
OK.
Sierra:
So I was almost fully done. I had done placements and I had done so many essays only to have to withdraw because my mum was getting sicker. My brother was having a hard time transitioning to high school.
And my family needed me.
My sister had also found herself at her limit with caring, and was leaving, caring behind and moving out.
Patty:
So as a result, did you withdraw from education once more to become a full-time carer?
Sierra:
Yes. So I withdrew from all schooling once again and was utterly devastated to have to do so again and again, and I went home and I looked after my mum. I got her health settled. I got her in a better place physically and then I took my brother to high school and talked with his teachers about all his issues and where he was chafing.
Yes and we organised to have more of a transitional thing, where he would go for smaller parts of the day, before we build up to a full day.
Patty:
Day to make it more sustainable, not just for him, but for his teachers as well, you.
Sierra:
Of course, and it was quite an adjustment for him to go to high school, but also for me to essentially have a child at high school. He was at an accessible school that caters for children with disabilities from mild to severe.
And so it was quite an adjustment for me.
A lot of his classmates thought I was his mum. And when I would come to pick up my brother, they would yell out, “Hey, there's your mum. Your mum's here to get you!”
And I never wanted to take the place of my mum. I never wanted him to see me as his mum, but at the same time I understood why he did.
Patty:
How did it make you feel hearing that?
Sierra:
At first it annoyed me, I thought, “Ohh, you know, you're just being silly. You're teasing me that I'm ohh. your mum.”
And after a while, however, of thinking it over, I realised I am. I have at this point at 24, I have raised a child.
When my brother went and moved in with his father at almost 16.
It was a relief. It felt like I was sending my child off to university and I was done. I had raised my child from nappies to uni.
And he was. I was done. I had my empty nest, and I was ready to live my life.
Patty:
And So what did you do? Did you start working then?
Sierra:
So, I started working night shifts while my brother was still in my care. So, when my sister left the caring role, I wasn't able to make ends meet anymore.
And I needed extra income, so I had no choice but to take on extra work. So I was working 4-5 night shifts a week.
Patty:
That's a lot plus caring for your mum.
Sierra:
And caring for my mom and my brother doing those I kept having to put off getting my P’s because I simply didn't have the time or money to go for the test.
I couldn't afford it. I had been the main driver for 4 years, but I still couldn't drive by myself legally, so my mother would be the figurehead in the passenger seat.
Patty:
The token driver with the license that couldn't actually drive.
Sierra:
Yeah. She even now she has quite significant issues understanding that green means go and red means stop.
Patty:
What ended up happening to allow you to go to university?
Sierra:
I actually connected with an exercise group through the Land Council and we're all a bunch of ladies just exercising and getting fit. And I was talking with some of them and one turned out to be the Aboriginal liaison officer at the university, and I have to admit I was having a little bit of a whinge.
And I said “it seems like I'm never going to get to university every time I take one step forward, I end up right back where I was at 17, dropping out of school, not able to balance looking after my mother and my brother and getting my studies done!” and she said “we've actually got a 1 week intensive entrance program coming up in December, and I really think you should apply, it's only for First Nation students, and I think you'd really like it. We put you up at the university. We take care of all your meals. And you're driven everywhere there, so you don't have to worry if you don't have your license”
So the only thing you had to do was show up.
Patty:
But of course, also make sure that you arranged care for your mom and brother.
Sierra:
It ended up being quite an inconvenient time because the real estate had, unbeknownst to us, organised the renovation of the bathroom for the same week.
So we had a portable toilet and shower in our backyard down a big set of stairs which for my mum who has mobility issues, was quite dangerous.
Thankfully, as my brother has gotten older. His understanding of what Mum's needs were had grown so I could rely on him to make sure she was safe. Getting to and from the bathroom downstairs and organising all of that. I also stopped by every morning. I was paying my sister $5 to take me.
You come up to the university. Come get me. Take me home so I could check on Mum, make sure she had everything.
And check on my brother. I'd also prepped all the meals ahead and spent days cleaning.
Patty:
That’s some impressive time management.
Sierra:
In that time that intensive week, we also had to do 2 English exams, 2 math exams, write a speech from scratch and give it and write an essay from scratch and give it.
And do all the research and referencing for it. And to be honest, it was the hardest week academically of my life.
I almost gave up, but I remember it was 3:00 o'clock in the morning and I was writing this essay and crying on the keyboard going.
That's it. I'm just. I'm not going to make it. It's too hard. How am I supposed to do this and that I'm going to fail? This is never going to work and then?
The next day came I had some sleep. I finished up my essay.
And I did whing the speech a little bit.
Patty:
So fast forward a couple of years later, you are now in your 2nd year of university.
Sierra:
To my utter surprise, I am averaging distinctions in all of my subjects. I have the odd credit, but the majority of my grades have been distinctions. I currently have a GPA of 5.6, the minimum being 3 and the maximum of 7.
Patty:
That's incredible. That's amazing. Knowing what you know now about the supports that Carer Gateway can offer, what do you wish you had access to that was missing from your life back then as a young carer?
Sierra:
I wish I had known about Carer Gateway earlier and known just how accessible it was. I thought it would be some big paperwork, heavy process or talking with people who had no idea what was going on and we're just going to say the prejudiced things I'd heard before, which is why doesn't your family just help out?
You know, you're just a kid. You don't, really. It can't be that bad.
You know, no one would make a kid do that.
They don't understand that it's not making you, you know, you're helping your family because there's no one else to do it.
People often ask, why did you choose to be a carer? They often don't understand. There wasn't a choice in it. It was simply wanting to help my mum out and make sure that my family was not separated because of things we couldn't control.
Patty:
Yes, that's right. And how did Carer Gateway help you?
Sierra:
Carer Gateway was able to help me obtain a laptop for university and in a later phone call with my caseworker, who has been an utter delight, we were having a chat and I was just having a little whinge about the household chores that were incredibly hard for me to manage.
I have quite severe asthma and we had a very large lawn at the time and lived on a hill so mowing it was a 3 day affair that would be multiple asthma attacks and she organised and paid for someone to come out and mow once a month.
So it was safe for mum, safe for me and no more asthma attacks.
Patty:
That's extraordinary. And as someone who is connected to many different indigenous and First Nations communities, what are some of the barriers that exist when it comes to carers receiving the support that they need, and how can we narrow that gap as a community?
Sierra:
I do think the stolen generation has caused a lot of echoes in the Community and a lot of barriers.
I feel like most First Nations carers understand the stress of contacting organisations, especially when there are people in your family who are still children who are directly affected by the caring role, because you don't want your family to be taken.
Patty:
That's right.
Sierra:
So I think having people be open about the fact that you aren't going to be taken from your family, just because you're a carer and it doesn't mean that your family isn't a safe place for that child.
It just means that your family is a slightly different makeup than your general household.
Patty:
And is entitled to support.
Sierra:
And is entitled to all the support. And I also think leaving behind antiquated views on, you know, or you're helping out because your mum just doesn't want to do it or she's lazy or, you know, or your Aboriginal, so it must be drugs or alcohol must be involved.
Patty:
Is that something that you find repeatedly offensive as a First Nations person from service providers or organisations in general?
Sierra:
So I find it incredibly insulting to be told that:
“Ohh you are very well spoken for an Aboriginal person or you don't look like an Aboriginal person should.
You know, you dress very well or there's no such thing as a gap between Aboriginal and white Australian people. They don't understand that there are still echoes of the issues coming through.
The Stolen Generation was not something in you know 1910 it was still happening in the 80s, right?
Children were still being taken. It was still not safe.
And we still have a massive gap in our life expectancy. I will be considered elderly at 50.
Patty:
That's right.
Sierra:
And it will be a miracle if I am still alive come 75.
So, when I compare that to my white counterparts, who are, you know, going to be considered elderly at 65 and it won't be unprecedented for them to live into their 90s.
And yet I don't know any indigenous person who can say they have the same life expectancy looking at them.
Patty:
Sierra, your life has been rich and full of a vast array of experiences, but recently I understand that one of your superpowers, and certainly, your skill when caring for your brother, is the possibility of being neurodivergent yourself. Can you share a little bit about that with us?
Sierra:
I'm currently getting tested for Autism and ADHD. My GP actually mentioned to me that she thought I was already aware that I had ADHD as it's generally diagnosed in childhood.
She thought I had just chosen not to pursue medication or treatment, but to simply live my life as it is.
Patty:
And another gap that you missed because of your huge responsibilities for your family. When would they have noticed to test you? They didn't even notice that you were a carer
Sierra:
Exactly. And it wasn't until a friend who is an early childhood educator brought it up, and then it seemed like everyone noticed it. I asked all the people around me, I said, you know, what do you think I'm like as a person? and they go, “you're very energetic or you have a hard time focusing, but you're a lovely person. You're very patient, very respectful.”
I talked with one of my lecturers about how I found it easier to do exams and things if I had music playing and I was reading a book and watching a movie and reading a textbook all at the same time, because then my brain was quiet, and I could focus. I didn't know that that was ADHD and processing disorders. I simply thought that everyone was like that.
I thought that, you know, having an extra strong coffee before bed allowed your brain to be quiet. I didn't realise I was self medicating ADHD.
Patty:
Whilst being a carer to both your brother and your mum so inadvertently, this is something that has helped you in your caring world that you inherited. Do you think that you have a point where you will no longer be able to look after your mum because you have mentioned that she's declining rather rapidly?
Sierra:
It was a hard realisation to come to, but at this point in my life, she most likely only has another year or 2 before she's going to need a nursing home.
Because she is getting to the point where she's no longer aware of reality, especially of a night, and she could get herself into quite a bit of danger.
I have to very carefully plan times when I'm away and I don't go out drinking because I can't be sure that she's going to be safe when I get home and especially living in a country area, it's incredibly dangerous for her to walk off.
Patty:
Yeah, of course. If you had a piece of advice here for someone who is struggling in life and certainly with their responsibilities as a young carer, what would you share with them?
Sierra:
Don't be afraid to ask for help. It doesn't mean you don't love the person. It doesn't mean that you're not a good person.
It means that you are human. You deserve help. You deserve support.
No one is going to judge you for saying, hey, can someone help me with this please or even just, “I need someone to talk to, who understands”
Patty:
Yeah, that's true. That's why I'm so inspired to Share your story with as many people as possible before I release you from my custody. However, let's do some rapid fire wrap up questions, shall we?
Sierra:
Sounds lovely
Lovely.
Patty:
Now is your preference to talk or to text?
Sierra:
100% talking.
Patty:
Do you have a favourite day of the week and why?
Sierra:
Monday because it sets the tone for the rest of the week and I know what to expect.
Patty:
Do you have a nickname that you used to be called when you were little?
Sierra:
I used to be called “Chooky” up until a friend called their dog saying “Chooky!”and I came running. That was mortifying. Never again.
Sierra:
So family is not allowed to call you that anymore? Is there a different name to replace it?
Sierra:
Not currently.
Patty:
Well, Sierra is such a beautiful name. It should really get its place on the stage!
Sierra:
My cousin insists on calling me Sez, but she is the only person allowed.
Patty:
That's understandable. Would you rather be able to speak every language in the world, or to be able to talk to animals?
Sierra:
I would rather speak every language so I could help the most amount of people, yeah.
Patty:
What's a random thought that you had about someone recently?
Sierra:
I wished my brother was gay, so I didn't have to explain safe sex to him, and I didn't have to risk him getting a girl pregnant.
Patty:
That's his dad's job now, isn't it?
Sierra:
It’s his dad’s job alright!
Patty:
All right, this is my last one, and it's a very important one. Is double dipping at a party ever acceptable?
Sierra:
Only if you already share spit with those people, so if you're at a party with family or your partner and children, that's absolutely fine. They already share your DNA, it's absolutely not a problem.
Otherwise, keep your spit to yourself.
Patty:
Sierra having you on this podcast has been amazing. Thank you for being so generous with the intricate details of not just your personal life, but your family's life as well.
Sierra:
Thank you for having me. It's been a pleasure.
Patty:
It's been a pleasure for me, and I am determined to share your story of perseverance, hope and resilience with as many people as I can.
If you know of someone that can be inspired or who would benefit from Sierra's amazing journey, please share this episode with them.
Giving us a 5-star rating also makes sure we end up in the right ears.
A young carer isn't just a child, adolescent or even young adult that can occasionally help out around the house.
They do much more than make a cup of coffee or help with the dishes, or pass a couple of panels to someone that might have.
Sierra found herself in a version of a sandwich generation when she was only 9 years old. I say a ‘version of’ because this term is usually reserved for older carers who are looking after both their children and their parents at the same time.
Sierra looked after her little brother when her mum couldn't. In previous Carer Conversations, such as February's podcast, when we spoke with Rachel Bennett and her story also included being part of the Stolen Generation.
This refers to a period in Australia's history where Aboriginal children were removed from their families through government policies from the mid 1800s to the 1970s and even 80s.
Even though Sierra was born in the late 1990s, the intergenerational trauma of the Stolen Generation was still in effect as she was petrified that her brother would be taken from her.
We have met Sierra during a rather triumphant chapter of her life. She is at university and doing very well. The care of her brother is now also being shared by his dad, and Sierra is receiving a lot of help to care for her mum.
As a result, she now has the capacity to care a little more for herself, and that also includes exploring her own newly diagnosed neurodivergence.
Until we chat again, be well and take extra good care of yourself.
Billy:
If you are caring for a relative or a friend who has a disability, a mental health condition, a life limiting health or medical condition.
Or they are frail because they're getting older. Please contact us at Carer Gateway on 1800 422 737, or look us up on www.carergateway.gov.au
And if you are a carer, you're allowed to take time to look after yourself. You are just as important as the person you take care of.