Are you living in Australia as someone who has emigrated from another country? Do you find that navigating these different customs and systems that are unfamiliar to you can be a little challenging? Well today we have an inspirational story to share with you with our guest, Siavash Manouchchehpour. Not only did he emigrate for his native Iran, but he was also inspired to change his profession from being a lawyer that worked in Human Rights, to now being the Manager for the Customer Support Team at The Benevolent Society.
Patty:
So does being lawyer mean that you tend to win most arguments?
Siavash:
{giggles} Well, I don't know about that.
Patty:
{giggles} Tell me I'm asking for a friend, not for myself.
Siavash:
{giggles} Yeah, I think that's the perception, certainly, that lawyers can argue. And just for the sake of it.
I think it gives you a good skill set to see things from different perspectives, so I would say a good lawyer should be able to understand both sides of the story.
But I'm not going to lie sometimes.
Especially this is something that my sister will find funny because when I worked in law, she would always say to me that I picked the right career to be able to argue.
If I really believe in something I try to advocate.
If I learned anything in my current role, you can never assume things. You have to be open to see things from different perspectives if you want to work with other people. There's no other way.
Patty:
It's actually an interesting and important perspective that our carers have as well, because a lot of them will say that it's easier to advocate for someone else than it is to advocate for themselves.
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Billy:
From the Carer Gateway at the Benevolent Society, we welcome you to, Carer Conversations with your host Patty Kikos.
The Care Gateway is the Australian Government national care hub and provides reliable services, support and advice especially for carers.
This podcast is where we share interviews with guests that have specialized knowledge to help support carers to look after their emotional, mental and physical well-being.
We are recording on Aboriginal country, on lands which were never ceded. We acknowledge the traditional custodians and cultural knowledge holders of these lands and waters. We pay our respects to Aboriginal elders, past and present.
Always was, always will be.
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Patty:
A very special hello to you and welcome to 2023! This is our 1st podcast episode for the year and I’m delighted to be connected with you all again. 😊
I hope you had a good break and a deep rest, and perhaps even managed to find some inspiration for a new theme for yourself this year.
Today I'm going to be interviewing a wonderful and very inspirational man, and I hope that you'll enjoy his story as much as I have.
When Siavash Manouchehrpour was trying to decide on a career, he was torn between two paths, law or social work.
He had a great insight into life as a lawyer. After all, his father had been one for 40 years. But Siavash also felt a strong calling to humanitarian work where he could support people in crisis and in need.
In the end, he chose law and completed his law degree in Iran, where he was born and raised.
Then in 2014, when Siavash was 25, he moved to Australia to complete his Juris doctor postgraduate degree.
It was an enormous cultural shift, but Siavash took it in his stride and worked as an immigration paralegal throughout his time at university.
When he did become a solicitor, he did a lot of pro bono asylum seeker cases, which meant that he regularly visited detention centres.
That is where he got to see all the social workers helping refugees. It was more hands on than law.
And it reignited his interest in that area.
This is when he decided to make the shift and to jump sectors.
Siavash researched various humanitarian organisations and he was drawn to The Benevolent Society for its 5core values of: integrity, respect, collaboration, effectiveness and optimism.
In 2017, Siavash started as a community service consultant. Within 11 months he became a team leader. Then in 2019, he was promoted again, this time to manager of our National Support Centre at Carer Gateway. It's a role heat passionately fulfils to this day.
Since his promotion, Siavash doesn't actually do very much.
Just kidding. He only leads 6 teams with a total of 66 people and he works hard to support our National Support Centre staff.
These solution focused teams are the first point of contact for all of our callers and clients. We connect them with our services and programs, as well as to external providers.
The people in our support centre are on the front line and this is an incredibly important role. They're often helping people at their most vulnerable because they are the first people that the public speak to when they call our hotline. Siavash has an enormous amount of admiration for our national Support Centre team and they respect him a lot in return.
In fact, I took the liberty of asking them to tell me about him and they have shared that he is so helpful, kind and accessible, and especially when the team had to go into lockdown, he became resourceful and always had their best interest at heart.
Siavsh is always approachable and open to being contacted. Despite lockdown restrictions, most of the original team are still there, so staff retention is high as they feel supported and appreciated for what they do. He sees how hard the job is and is always open to linking staff to support.
Like many carers, Siavash advocates ferociously for his team and is a time management wizard. I have also experienced that as one of his gifts, and I'm inspired by how completely present he can be, even when he is so busy himself.
Since moving to Australia, Siavash has coped with significant changes and challenges, but he has always emerged stronger than before. He looks forward to continuing his journey and we are so grateful to have him with us today on the Carer Conversations Podcast.
Now Siavash, you are kind and gracious enough to answer to “Sivash” in addition to “Siavash”, because we Australians can be a little lazy with our accent, and we often take the liberty of either shortening a name or using a nickname to address our friends. Isn't that right?
Both Giggle
So tell me a little bit about you. Where were you born? What does Siavash mean and what inspired you to move to Australia?
Siavash
Yes, so I was born in Iran, in the capital city of Tehran and I grew up there. I completed my Uni there and I came to Australia when I was 25 to continue my education here.
So the reason I guess I decided to move to Australia was from an early age, my parents always emphasised the importance of education and independence with my sister and I, so I think when I was in high school, I started thinking about perhaps continuing my education, perhaps overseas, and just having that experience of living somewhere else that I was always interested in.
So obviously I completed university at home and I did my bachelor's degree there, and shortly after that I started studying for my English exams and my Uni exams, and I got an offer to come and study in Australia in 2014, so that's when I decided to come here.
Also, my sister at the time, she was studying in Italy. She's a musician and so ultimately, I knew that she would come here to continue living with her partner, now husband and so it was initially a toss up for me, between Australia and a few other places but yeah, that was one of the main reasons that I came to Australia. Family is quite important to me.
Patty:
Family connection in a different country is very important, isn't it?
Siavash:
Absolutely. Absolutely. Especially because my parents are still back home, so it was incredibly important for me that me and my sister are in the same place if they were to come visit and perhaps we could kind of preserve that integrity of our household.
Patty:
That's amazing. And so one question I want to ask you before I move into what you said, which is you also continued to study English. What does Siavash mean?
Siavash:
Yeah, so it's an old ancient Persian name and it comes from the mythological epic poem, which was written thousands of years ago and so it's yeah, Siavash is one of the characters in that epic and the literal translation of it means “the one who owns a black stallion”
But I think it that character symbolises, I think purity, and I guess perseverance. So it's yeah, it's an interesting story.
Patty:
I like it.
Siavash:
The the real pronunciation, I'm told in an ancient tongue is “SeahVasawks”, which is really hard even for me to say.
Patty:
Oh, much less Australians who have changed Siavash to “Sivash”
Siavash:
Initially when I first came, I worked with a lovely person, but they suggested that I just anglicize my name to Sebastian. Well, I said, “Oh, you know. It's a little bit of a change to go from Siavash to Sebastian”
Patty:
It's actually a little bit of a leap, to be honest.
Siavash:
Haha yes it is. So I didn't take up that proposal.
Patty:
I'm glad you maintain the integrity of your culture through your name.
Siavash:
Actually, yeah. I think it's quite important.
Patty:
And you tell me that you studied in English and then moved to this country, which is a challenge in and of itself.
But then you pursued a career in law, and many native English speakers find it difficult to understand legal terms.
So it's almost like you're trilingual. It's like you speak Persian, you speak English, and then you speak law.
Siavash:
Haha yeah, that's. I think the same goes in Persian and some of the terminologies are quite complex. So yeah, it is a language of its own, yeah.
Patty:
So tell me a little bit about how you became an immigration lawyer, which is a branch of human rights law, isn't?
Siavash:
Yep, Yep it is. I guess when I started my degree in Australia from my first semester, I was really keen to get some local experience and to see in what capacity I could help people in my community or just people around me.
And so one of the things I did in the beginning, is that I started going to legal clinics and community legal centres to volunteer. And through some of my f studies, and through some of the course experiences, I had gained, I chose to link up with a few advocacy groups for refugees and asylum seekers. And so that's how I got I got introduced to that work and I guess also to detention centres.
There was a detention centre still, I think still exists to this day, the Villawood detention centre. And so I I used to go there quite a bit, just to volunteer with the advocacy group.
I also started working with RACS, which stands for ‘refugee advice and casework services’. And they're kind of the big peak body in, I think, Sydney or NSW regarding working with the refugees. And so in that capacity I first started popping in as an interpreter.
Gradually, I started helping out with some other legal work, such as writing statements, things like that.
So, and also in detention centres, working with asylum seekers, I got a lot of experience in that side of the law.
But I also joined on a part time basis EA Migration agency, and I worked with them as a paralegal throughout my studies. Obviously, that work involved a lot of, I guess, collaboration with other solicitors to prepare visa applications or appeal processes for all different kinds of people who were planning to come to Australia or where in Australia and then wanted to keep staying in Australia.
Patty:
Yeah. Or potentially bring their family to Australia, right?
Siavash:
Yeah, absolutely. So many different kinds. It gave me great experience and the more I did it, I guess the more I realised this is an area of law that I was really interested in because at the time, I didn't realise this, but it was for me it was all about that connection and then finding meaning in work.
So becoming a solicitor in itself, it wasn't the main priority for me, but more that I can get that satisfaction from working with other people I think I really enjoyed that in my experience.
Patty:
Umm, certainly 'cause then you had a little bit of a pivot, didn't you? And you changed and started working at the Benevolent society.
So tell me a little bit about your role and what the teams are that you manage, and perhaps we can even talk about the biggest difference in your role now versus when you were a lawyer.
Siavash:
Yeah, very different. So in my current role I work as the manager of our National Support Centre, at the Benevolent Society.
Our support centre is essentially in charge of the first part of the journey for our clients and carers. Essentially we are responsible for connecting people to services or perhaps it's actually much bigger than that. It's all about understanding people when they're at their most vulnerable state.
Patty:
It's the intake team that you're referring to. So all the clients that try to contact me go through the intake team and all the clients that have had something disastrous and treacherous that has happened to them, contact the intact team who will then escalate it to us. So it's a very important job.
Siavash:
Absolutely. And so in doing that, obviously our wonderful team members must hold space for our clients and new carers to understand their needs and connect them to the right support services.
And that includes our wonderful Care Connect team who help with our carers. And so it's I guess the first point of their journey, but also that ongoing care management of our clients from time to time.
Patty:
Yeah, certainly, certainly. What's the biggest difference in your role now versus when you were a lawyer?
Siavash:
That's a really good question, I think.
I mean, they’re very, very different roles. My role as solicitor was a very specialised role, so I guess I focused on very specific things and working predominantly with clients. Perhaps taking their matters to court and helping them sort of regulate their residency status.
In my current role, I look after a large team and this role is multifaceted, so there's a lot of functions to look after and a lot of things to do, which keeps it very dynamic and very interesting.
I love people development and enabling people and then kind of if I'm able to assist people to really do their best work. Not dictated by me but guided by their own principles. My current role is creating the right environment and leading a team or leading people to do their best work, which then translates to the journey of the clients.
Yeah, but also there are your, I guess normal activities as a manager looking after recruitment, admin and budget stuff. All that good stuff.
Patty:
Yeah, that's when my eyes start to glaze over when you talk about spreadsheets.
Siavash:
Excel spreadsheets, yes, exactly. So that's very interesting for me.
Patty:
It sounds like you're able to access other different elements of your personality within your current role that perhaps you weren't able to as a lawyer previously.
Siavash:
I never thought of it that way, but I think you're right. I think in the roles that I have had previously in law just because it's highly regulated and based on protocol and everything is so specific obviously there's your scope which is very different.
I feel like my scope now is really broad, and that's not just the role, but it's the culture we have.
So we are able to, I guess, bring ourselves to work. I try to do the same thing with our team members because if you get the environment right then people are motivated to do their best work.
Patty:
And they will flourish.
Siavash:
That they will flourish and then that directly translates, it impacts our clients and our carers.
Patty:
Well, I have it on good authority from the people that I've spoken to, that this is true
So does being lawyer mean that you tend to win most arguments?
Siavash:
{giggles} Well, I don't know about that.
Patty:
Tell me I'm asking for a friend, not for myself.
Siavash:
{giggles} Yeah, I think that's the perception, certainly, that lawyers can argue. And just for the sake of it.
I think it gives you a good skill set to see things from different perspectives, so I would say a good lawyer should be able to understand both sides of the story.
But I'm not going to lie sometimes.
Especially this is something that my sister will find funny because when I worked in law, she would always say to me that I picked the right career to be able to argue.
If I really believe in something I try to advocate.
If I learned anything in my current role, you can never assume things. You have to be open to see things from different perspectives if you want to work with other people. There's no other way.
Patty:
It's actually an interesting and important perspective that our carers have as well, because a lot of them will say that it's easier to advocate for someone else than it is to advocate for themselves.
And a lot of the work that we do in counselling and coaching is to help carers become very neutral in their caring role and to have the capacity to see different perspectives, because a lot of the time, when you're advocating for a loved one, you're often vehemently disagreeing with people who are specialists or professionals about a particular ting, whether it's a diagnosis or a particular status within someone’s health diagnosis. And sometimes you have to really put yourself out there to say, hey, I know you've said this, but these are other things that you need to take into consideration.
Siavash:
Absolutely. Absolutely.
Patty:
And what personal experiences have you had yourself as a carer that I'm sure you would bring into this role in terms of your lived experience?
Siavash:
Yeah. So I think much like to a lot of our carers, they might not see themselves as a quote unquote “formal carer” and so my experience with caring for someone else, was not initially a formal role.
In a previous relationship, I cared for someone who at the time was working on their mental health.
And I think I always carry this experience with me in my professional work and certainly in my personal life.
I think this kind of experience really impacts you, so it's all about framing it and defining how you perceive it. For me, it motivates me.
In my job it could sometimes be triggering, and it is something that obviously you'd need to I guess be mindful of and appreciate and understand about yourself as well. And I think this probably will resonate with a lot of our carers that, as much as we would love to put in the hard yards and really hope with the support of family members or friends or whoever that might be...
It's always good to be mindful of the impact on us because it's all about being able to have the capacity to have that important emotional regulation as well.
Patty:
Yeah, 100% yeah, 'cause ideally that lived experience gives us that genuine compassion that a degree doesn't necessarily give us, especially if we have a more distant bedside manner.
But I think it's important when you're working in this sector, to be mindful of showing your compassion from a healed scar versus an open gaping wound that's seeping with sepsis because that's when you’re too triggered to be of service to somebody else, isn't it?
Siavash:
Absolutely, absolutely. It's important because that comes from what underpins our actions.
If it's from a place of, “OK, well, I've looked at this and I'm aware of any triggers that I may have, and I look at things from a place of resolution and a healthy place”.. which in my experience takes time. So that's something else to kind of understand.
Patty:
Certainly. If you actually had one piece of advice to share for our carers, what would it be?
Siavash:
A piece of advice?
Patty:
It's a simple but loaded question, isn't it?
Siavash:
It is indeed. I think for me one thing that I've learned maybe over the past couple of years, is reflecting again on understanding other perspectives.
I always have an appreciation of how people around us come up and from different cultures, upbringings, different environments and experiences that impact them throughout their life.
And I think that really shapes your personality, your blind spots, the way you approach things.
Patty:
Your fears, your resilience.
Siavash:
Exactly. And your resilience even. Through personal experience I think understanding that and having held space for that, I have an appreciation of that. It really helps with my perception of the reality around me.
At times where I have perhaps struggled to connect to someone or perhaps work with them or understand them in my personal life, or we have differences, we've had differences of opinion. Knowing that they have a different perspective based on their experiences really helped me to understand that person better along with their motivators.
Because in turn that would help me, I guess approach everything with more a of a positive intent, with a different mindset. That's been very helpful for myself in my life.
Patty:
So other people experiences have expanded your own notion, perhaps of what the caring role entails. Would you say?
Siavash:
Absolutely, I think that this extends to our clients too and I think every day we see that not every day is the same, in our environment.
A lot of the times you would know. A lot of the times we see scenarios and circumstances that are quite unique and so having an appreciation of those factors impacting people and understanding a lot of them, you know, personal circumstances and challenges could underpin behaviours.
It just makes it easier to understand people and work with them, so it works. It helps in my life and in my work. But I guess the other thing that I wanted to talk about.
Oh, the other thing that I wanted to talk about was how I think probably the best advice that I received from that related to my work was:
Having a difficult conversation.
It's much better than having a long-term dysfunction, and I can explain a little bit more about that.
Patty:
Yeah, please do. That's great advice, because it's almost like you want to say. It's better to be sad for the truth then happy for a lie.
So have those difficult conversations. It will actually make your life easier in the long run. Yeah, please do expand on it because think that this ties in quite beautifully with why you're so passionate about working in this sector.
It’s the reason that you have this role, right? So yes, please do expand.
Siavash:
Yeah, yeah. No, absolutely. I think again sort of going back to your I guess motivators or triggers and understanding yourself better and people around you and I think personally, I'm one of those people who is a pacifier.
I always, (and this is not something that I was aware of, but I've developed this understanding about myself) that I've always tried to work with people, to pacify the situation, and that's great in itself, but sometimes people like me, pacifiers, I think they tend to not have that difficult conversation.
And I'm not just talking about work. It could be personal matters where you might despise having a conversation about a difficult thing even with a loved one. But in my experience, it is important to have the courage and the persistence to do that because in turn, you're so much better off than letting something like that drag on, and leads to all sorts of other problems. So one of my favourite quotes
Patty:
Yes, yes. And I guess you've just outed the shadow in the archetypal identity of the pacifier because the pacifier is also the peacemaker, right?
But the shadow side of it is that sometimes we don't shy away from having the confrontations that are inevitably part of life.
If you go to the opposite archetypal identity of the warrior, that will always go to bat and they'll go to battle and they'll, fight and they'll advocate, whereas sometimes the shadow of the warrior, is that his particular thing is not your fight. You can let this one go.
Siavash:
Yeah, yeah. That's really, really interesting. I like that.
Patty:
And so, I know that you say that you're always interested in people and their stories, and when you first moved from law and started your leadership journey, this is something that you quite enjoyed, and you were quite good at.
But it's also challenging as well. Are there any other challenges that you face that we might not have discussed?
Siavash:
Uhm, I think obviously making the transition from law to this sector came with a lot of work. Understanding the sector, developing knowledge around that and an appreciation for the work and then the client groups, which is really important to develop.
So that I think that was one of the things that I would say it was a challenge in the beginning.
But yeah, in terms of coming to Australia, moving to Australia, that's a whole different story, I guess.
Patty:
Yeah. Yeah. And for many of our carers as well.
Siavash:
Yeah, yeah. So I think this probably will resonate with the number of people, but, I didn't quite understand how, I guess different cultures perceive simple things that we take for granted differently, such as communication.
So, for example, I do think in Australia we have a way of direct communication which is which is helpful, but it's also very different to some other cultures, so.
Patty:
Yeah, it can be offensive, for instance the sense of directness can be quite offensive to some people.
Siavash:
Exactly. And so, for example, in my culture or, (you know, Persian culture, Iranian culture) all of our poetry, a lot of it is in literature.
So I didn't quite realise before coming to Australia that we actually talk in a roundabout way. We don't really communicate directly. So I've read about high context cultures and low context cultures and and a lot of it is around how you communicate really. Sometimes you rely on social cues or implied language, and shared understanding.
Patty:
And social cues that are unanimous among people because they can mean different things in different cultures.
Siavash:
Exactly, exactly. So I think I'm getting used to that. Again to gain an understanding of the Australian culture, yeah, it's really important. I think it's always a journey. It‘s an ongoing journey for people like me who tend to migrate from another country.
I guess the older you migrate to another country, sometimes it could get more difficult to integrate or perhaps it really depends on the person.
Because you've kind of developed your personality in another environment, then you have to re learn a lot of things.
Patty:
Yeah, you have to make creative adjustments all the time, don't you?
Siavash:
Exactly. And it's important at the same time that you preserve your identity as well. And so now I'm Australian and I'm Iranian and I'm a migrant and I it's important that I preserve my Persian culture and I also preserve my Australian culture, the way I've integrated into the society and the way I understand the world around me.
So I think, yeah, kind of reconciling the two and how you do it, it's really important because it could really dictate how you see your journey and how you perceive your life.
Patty:
Yeah. And you had the advantage of already having quite a strong command of English when you emigrated. Many of our carers don't have that. So I think what you talked about is almost a preservation of 2 cultures, but it's also an ongoing love story, isn't it, of constantly merging the two because you're always going to be changing, aren't you?
Siavash, I love what you said. Let's do a rapid fire wrap up what is the best advice that you've ever received?
Siavash:
The best advice I guess was more around understanding other people and seeing things from a different perspective.
Developing an understanding of the motivators and drivers for other people in their personal life and being open to gaining an appreciation of all those factors as opposed to constructing the world around you through your own lens. That's really helped me a lot in my relationships, both at work and in my personal life.
Patty:
And who is someone inspiring you at the moment and why?
Siavash:
Well, I think for me, I'm not a particular person. I am inspired by newer generations. Gen Z. I think they're quite impressive to me.
I think in a lot of ways the younger generations when compared to how I came up and when I was younger, they are equipped with amazing resources and tools to be connected to each other and the world around them, and so I think.
A lot of them are quite educated, quite innovative and I think they would be advocating for the better in in a lot of sensors.
And it could be, I don't know, it could be climate, it could be a number of things. But yeah, I think younger generations.
Patty:
I like that you said that because usually the previous generation bashes the generation after it, so it's quite refreshing. What do you love most about your life outside of your work?
Siavash:
Yeah. So I think my most prized possessions, are friendships that I have.
So I guess some relationships around me are most important to me. That includes friends and family. I have two young nieces that I adore, and I spend a lot of time with them
Patty:
Lucky you emigrated to Australia then, right?
Siavash:
Yeah, absolutely. And so yeah, I spend a lot of time with friends and family. And I love travelling too, so I didn't know when I came here. I think again, when you migrate to another country in the first couple of years, you're probably just running and you're trying to, I guess, achieve things.
Patty:
You're almost in survival mode, aren't you?
Siavash:
Exactly! You're trying to make a life for yourself, and I think I'm.
I kind of it was funny because when about the time that I finished UNI and obviously moved to the sector and then kind of established, I was established in my new role.
Yeah. And shortly after that, obviously COVID happened. So I had planned to travel more, but obviously I just got to do that in 2019 and obviously because of COVID, I couldn't do a lot of it, so my hope is that I'll get to do more.
Patty:
OK so, my last question. Alright, Are you ready for this one?
Siavash:
I’m ready
Patty:
You're on death row. Goodness knows what you did to get here though.
Siavash {giggles}
Right??
Patty:
Because, you weren't connected with the lawyer families, right? Just kidding.
Siavash:
I would hope so. I would hope so.
Patty:
You're on death row about to be executed. What meal do you ask for?
Siavash:
This might sound a little bit simple, but I think some of the greatest things in life are simple things.
So I would say, my mother turmeric chicken dish that she would make with rice when I was there, and she would make this when I was kid and whenever I got sick. I probably haven't had this dish for 15 years. So that's cool.
Patty:
That's not because you haven't seen your mom in 15 years?
Siavash:
No, no, no, no but.
Patty:
So it's because you haven't been sick enough to ask for that dish, is that right?
Siavash:
Yes, exactly.
Patty:
It I bet your mum turmeric chicken in rice is a much healthier option than my request, which would probably be a burger and fries.
Speaker 2
Uh, you know, that actually sounds good as well.
Patty:
Siavash, thank you so much for sharing your story and inspiring our carers with your stories. Ash, who is the team leader for the Intake Team has stated that Siavash is supportive, approachable and real in his approach to work as he understands the importance of balancing home in addition to a caring role.
As busy as he is, he's always available to answer questions or chat through any difficulties that arise.
He's also helpful during catch ups, and he's open to checking in on his team outside of work hours. And the bonus is that Siavash remembers details about their personal life.
You can tell that he cares as he remembers things, and this translates into a healthy work environment.
Ash says that you can tell Siavash is a very secure leader in himself because he knows who he is and he's confident in his leadership style and his ability.
But he's also confident within his team. He's very happy for someone else to take the lead and when they do, he sits and is an active listener
Before I close, I'd like to share the advice that Ash has shared for our listeners.
He says it's honourable and brave for carers to reach out for help. It's a strength, not a weakness, because you want to get better for yourself and the person you care for.
And the first step is the hardest step, but also the most important one in getting the support that you need.
One of the things that I'd also like to remind you as carers, is that you two are a leader for your family and your loved one who you care for.
We're not meant to navigate difficult changes on our own and a good leader needs to have a good support team behind them and that's the role that we'd like to provide for you.
Thank you again for joining us today. If you found this chat helpful, please tell your friends or leave us a 5 star review.
Until next time. Take good care of you.
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Billy:
If you are caring for a relative or a friend who has a disability, a mental health condition, a life limiting health or medical condition.
Or they are frail because they're getting older. Please contact us at Carer Gateway on 1800 422 737, or look us up on www.carergateway.gov.au
And if you are a carer, you're allowed to take time to look after yourself. You are just as important as the person you take care of.